Kernel Traffic
Latest | Archives | People | Topics
Latest | Archives | People | Topics
Latest | Archives | People | Topics
Home | News | RSS Feeds | Mailing Lists | Authors Info | Mirrors | Sleeping Cousins

Wine Traffic #31 For 21 Feb 2000

By Eric Pouech

Table Of Contents


This is the 31st release of the Wine's kernel cousin publication. It's main goal is to distribute widely what's going on around Wine (the Un*x windows emulator).

Mailing List Stats For This Week

We looked at 97 posts in 393K.

There were 27 different contributors. 14 posted more than once. 20 posted last week too.

The top posters of the week were:

1. WineHQ web server

 Archive Link: "Network TTL trouble"

People: Bertho Stultiens

There were a couple of issues with the WineHQ server this week. Firstly, Bertho Stultiens, who is kindly hosting reported:
There is a chance that some network-connections never will arrive at the server. This is due to extreme hop-counts between networks. We have experienced hop-counts over 40 from our internal net and I just discovered that the external computers also reach over 30 many times.

The problem always starts after about 15:00 CET local time (09:00 EST) and stops first (gets less bad) when the USA's eastcoast is getting ready for dinner (24:00..01:00 CET). The increased traffic in the US is resulting in rerouting of many packets and increased router-involvement. Our network is almost completely routed through a US-connection for USA, Australia and Asia traffic. However, I've also seen problems within Europe.

We are considering a couple of IPIP-tunnels to get the hopcount down, but this involves serious work and will not be done all too soon. If you have problems, please notify me with a trace from your local site.

Note: most Linux machines will not have problems because the default TTL is set at 64 (RFC1700 page 64 use 'cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_default_ttl'). However, older machines may still have their TTL at 32 (RFC1060 page 23 or even worse, at 15 as recommended in RFC791...). I do not know about other OSes what their defaults are, but please set them higher than 32 if you want to keep on using the internet.

and a few days later, Bertho kept experiencing the Murphy's Law:
The network-card gave up (a ne2000 clone). The problem was that I did not have another 10Mbit card at hand (only 100Mbit) and it took a while to lay hands on a new card. But, as usual, not everything is working instantly with a new card. The problem during the last 10 hours or so has been that the router's arp-cache refused to timeout and I could not get packets out from (winehq). Mainly because the IP is an alias. However, I just got the network running again and the whole site is accessible again (afaik).

Everything has been back on tracks before the week-end.

2. Of compilers and calling conventions

 Archive Link: "Wine's dependency on the pascal calling convention (stdcall)"

People: Patrik StridvallAlexandre JulliardPatrik StridvalMarcus Meissner

Patrik Stridvall started another staircase discussion with Alexandre Julliard regarding Wine's adhere to the GNU's compiler.

Wine, as Windows, relies on the pascal (aka stdcall) calling convention: a function's calling convention defines in which order the parameters are pushed onto the stack: C (aka cdecl) pushes the parameters from left to right, pascal does it the other way).

Most of Windows APIs are defined with the pascal calling convention. So, when Wine implements a Windows API, the function is (most) always pascal.

However, Patrik pointed out:
While GNU C supports it (pascal calling convention), some other compilers like the Solaris Workshop C compiler doesn't AFAIK. This is not very surprising since ANSI C doesn't require support for it.

Patrik then announced he had had some success making WineLib work with Solaris Workshop C, which has the following advantages:
The most important issue is the size of the debug info. With Solaris Workshop C 4.2 the total size of the *.so files with stabs debug info (used by dbx) is about 9.8 Mb. With GNU C 2.91.66 the total size of the *.so files is about 77 Mb. No I'm not joking it is almost a factor 8 difference. Further more Solaris Workshop C generates better code and compiles faster. Secondly supporting more compilers is nice in itself.

Marcus Meissner pointed out that using latest gcc (2.95) and binutils would reduce debug information (by merging it between different compilation units).

Anyway, Patrik's main point remained: if Wine is asked to run, let's say native x86 code (using the pascal calling convention) with regular code (using only cdecl calling convention), then there's a need for a thunking layer. Patrik's main application was to be able to run Wine on Itanium (aka Merced) and using it x86 hardware emulation part.

A lengthy discussion went on between Patrik and Alexandre. Alexandre concluded it with:

Final decision will be made on
a matter of cost vs. benefit. And in the case of stdcall the benefit is so small that I seriously doubt you can make it worthwhile. If you disagree, by all means go ahead and implement it, and then we'll judge on the code.

3. Do animals drink Wine ?

 Archive Link: "COREL: typelib speedup"

People: Ove KaavenAlexandre JulliardCodeWeaverscodeweaversOve KåvenMarcus Meissner

Marcus Meissner, in the bunch of patches he submitted from the Corel CVS tree, provided one with the following Changelog: Alexandre Julliard <> (for Corel)

A suspicious Ove Kåven asked:
I'm sure there must be other people than me wondering... which Alexandre is this who needs to have his patch submitted to Wine by someone else?

Alexandre answered:
It is the Alexandre-working-on-behalf-of-Corel, not the Alexandre-hacking-Wine-on-his-own-time; they are quite different animals.

The work I do for Corel is owned by them, and they can do what they want with it; it may or may not end up in their CVS tree, and as long as it isn't released to the public I don't have any right to put it in the WineHQ tree. Once it shows up in the Corel tree I could of course merge it into WineHQ myself, but if other people do the work for me I'm not going to complain...

Even though Corel are very cool about this, and of course intend to release all the Wine code back to the community anyway, I think it is important to make a clear distinction, to ensure that I don't take credit for changes paid for by Corel (or that they take credit for changes I do on my own...) This is also why I have adopted the convention of putting my CodeWeavers email in the log entry of all the patches I did on behalf of Corel.

Later on, Alexandre gave also an update on the Wine's license survey:
I have received an OK from about 75 people, and more are still arriving. Since I haven't received any opposition so far I think it is safe to say that we will be able to do the change pretty soon.







Sharon And Joy

Kernel Traffic is grateful to be developed on a computer donated by Professor Greg Benson and Professor Allan Cruse in the Department of Computer Science at the University of San Francisco. This is the same department that invented FlashMob Computing. Kernel Traffic is hosted by the generous folks at All pages on this site are copyright their original authors, and distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License version 2.0.