<?xml version="1.0" ?>

<kc>

<title>Kernel Traffic</title>

<author contact="mailto:zbrown@tumblerings.org">Zack Brown</author>

<issue num="229" date="08 Sep 2003 00:00:00 -0800" />

<headquote>

<p>If you like Kernel Traffic and want to send me a little money, click
here:</p>

<p>

<form action="https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr" method="post">
  <input type="hidden" name="cmd" value="_xclick"/>
  <input type="hidden" name="business" value="zbrown@tumblerings.org"/>
  <input type="hidden" name="no_shipping" value="1"/>
  <input type="hidden" name="return" value="http://www.kerneltraffic.org"/>
  <input type="hidden" name="cancel_return" value="http://www.kerneltraffic.org"/>
  <input type="image" src="https://www.paypal.com/images/x-click-but21.gif" alt="https://www.paypal.com/xclick/business=zbrown%40tumblerings.org&amp;no_note=1&amp;tax=0&amp;currency_code=USD" border="0" name="submit"/>
</form>

</p>

</headquote>

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<section
  title="Code-Formatting Patches And BitKeeper Revision History"
  subject="[PATCH] CodingStyle fixes for drm_agpsupport"
  posts="27"
  startdate="11 Aug 2003 07:59:02 -0800"
  enddate="14 Aug 2003 12:22:07 -0800"
>
<topic>Version Control</topic>

<mention>Dave Jones</mention>

<p>Dave Jones posted some formatting changes to a file, to make it conform
more closely to the CodingStyle document. Larry McVoy objected to the patch,
in part because, <quote who="Larry McVoy">It's a formatting only patch.
That screws over people who are using BK for debugging, now when I double
click on these changes I'll get to your cleanup patch, not the patch that was
the last substantive change.</quote> Jeff replied that in Linux development,
CodingStyle patches were culturally acceptable, as long as the developer kept
each individual patch small. Larry replied, <quote who="Larry McVoy">That
ought to be balanced with "don't screw up the revision history, people use it".
It's one thing to reformat code that is unreadable, for the most part this code
didn't come close to unreadable.</quote> Eli Carter remarked, <quote who="Eli
Carter">perhaps the (revision control) tool is getting in the way of doing
the job and should be fixed?  :) Perhaps being able to flag a changeset as a
'formatting change', and have the option to hide it or make it 'transparent'
in some fashion?  Hmm... "Annotate only the changes that relate to feature
X."</quote> Larry said he'd thought about that and rejected it, and in fact,
<quote who="Larry McVoy">we have a policy at BitMover where "formatting
changes" are prohibited and we make people redo their changesets until they
get them right.</quote> Philip Brown suggested, <quote who="Philip Brown">You
should allow for changes that are "formatting change only", with no actual
code structural change.  You could pass the results through stage 1 of gcc,
and only allow it if the parsing tree is identical.</quote> Larry replied
that BitKeeper was used for more than just GCC-compilable files. Eli asked,
<quote who="Eli Carter">I assume you can have content-specific validators run
before a commit?  (CVS can.) A validator could see that it was formatting
only and mark it in someway perhaps?</quote> Larry said yes, BitKeeper had
triggers, which could do what Eli wanted.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="ext2 Corruption In 2.4.22-rc2"
  subject="2.4.22-rc2 ext2 filesystem corruption"
  posts="20"
  startdate="11 Aug 2003 19:58:03 -0800"
  enddate="16 Aug 2003 16:09:36 -0800"
>
<topic>FS: ext2</topic>

<mention>Alan Cox</mention>
<mention>Stephan von Krawczynski</mention>

<p>Martin Maney reported, <quote who="Martin Maney">I've got a very repeatable
file corruption under 2.4.22-rc2 that does not manifest under 2.4.21.
My repeatable test case only (so far?) causes the data in the file to be
corrupted, but I suspect metadata can get hit as well, and I have seen some
filesystem errors that were probably caused by this, but not so that I can say
so with certainty.</quote> Stephan von Krawczynski suggested running memtest
to confirm there were no problems with his RAM chips. And Marcelo Tosatti
asked for a clear recipe to repeat the corruption. Martin said that copying
any large file (perhaps 50M in size) across filesystems, and then umounting
the destination filesystem would reproduce the corruption. After remounting,
the data would have changed. Marcelo asked, <quote who="Marcelo Tosatti">can
you try to isolate the corruption. You said it didnt happen with 2.4.21 --
which pre shows up the problem?</quote> Martin replied, <quote who="Martin
Maney">The problem appears only in rc2 (okay, assuming it's not a regression).
With 2.4.21-rc1 the file corruption I've been seeing does not happen.</quote>
... <quote who="Martin Maney">I will also try an rc2 with unnecessary
features omitted from the build.  So far I've stayed with the base config,
but it's a config shared by most of the machines on the LAN and thus has
plenty of extras.</quote></p>

<p>Marcelo thought the problem might have something to do with the Promise
driver, which changed in -rc2. He posted a patch to revert that change,
but instead of this, Martin disabled his Promise chip entirely. After that,
he no longer observed the corruption. Marcelo asked him to try again with
the same hardware, and just that one patch reverted, so they could be sure
where the problem was. Martin did this, and confirmed that the corruption
could not be reproduced with the patch reverted.</p>

<p>Having located the problem, Alan Cox pointed out that it would still be
necessary to audit the code in order to find a fix. There were a couple more
posts, and the thread petered out.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Pre-Loading Modules Before Bootup"
  subject="multibooting the linux kernel"
  posts="10"
  startdate="12 Aug 2003 14:36:52 -0800"
  enddate="14 Aug 2003 10:47:27 -0800"
>
<topic>FS: initramfs</topic>
<topic>FS: ramfs</topic>

<mention>Christoph Hellwig</mention>
<mention>H. Peter Anvin</mention>

<p>Nufarul Alb posted <a
href="http://home.t-online.de/home/ChristianK./patches/">a patch</a> that
made it possible to pre-load modules before the kernel actually booted.
Christoph Hellwig pointed out that Nufarul's patch was against 2.4, and so
did not have much chance of being accepted. He suggested porting the work
to 2.6-test and resubmitting it. He also suggested coding in the Linux
style rather than the GNU style. Nufarul clarified, <quote who="Nufarul
Alb">Those are not my patches. They belong to a certain Christian Koenig. He
doesn't mantain them any more and I'm searching for someone to mantain this
project.</quote> H. Peter Anvin suggested just using initramfs instead.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Linux 2.6.0-test3-mm2 Released"
  subject="2.6.0-test3-mm2"
  posts="18"
  startdate="13 Aug 2003 00:31:56 -0800"
  enddate="17 Aug 2003 12:37:50 -0800"
>
<topic>Framebuffer</topic>

<mention>Andrew Morton</mention>

<p>Andrew Morton announced <a
href="ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/akpm/patches/2.6/2.6.0-test3/2.6.0-test3-mm2/">2.6.0-test3-mm2</a>,
saying it included "zillions" of bugfixes, framebuffer updates, and some
more CPU scheduler tweaking. Peter Osterlund posted <quote who="Peter
Osterlund">a fix for synaptics touchpads with "multi buttons". The patch
comes from Hartwig Felger, who wrote the original multi button support patch
(p00003_synaptics-multi-button.patch). The same bug fix has been included
in the XFree86 driver for a few weeks, and seems to work fine. (That part
of the X driver is only used for 2.4 kernels.)</quote></p>

</section>

<section
  title="/proc/kcore May Be Going Away"
  subject="[PATCH] Make modules work in Linus' tree on ARM"
  posts="16"
  startdate="14 Aug 2003 04:08:10 -0800"
  enddate="18 Aug 2003 11:27:09 -0800"
>

<mention>Eli Carter</mention>
<mention>Alan Cox</mention>
<mention>Daniel Jacobowitz</mention>
<mention>John Levon</mention>
<mention>John Bradford</mention>

<p>Russell King said:</p>

<quote who="Russell King">

<p>This patch allows modules to work in Linus' tree for ARM, and is the one
thing which prevents Linus' tree from building for any ARM machine.</p>

<p>After reviewing the /proc/kcore and kclist issues, I've decided that I'm no
longer prepared to even _think_ about supporting /proc/kcore on ARM - it just
gets too ugly, and adds too much code to make it worth the effort, the time
or the energy to implement a solution to that problem.  This is especially
true since most people use kgdb or similar rather than /proc/kcore anyway.
/proc/kcore is a "wouldn't it be nice" feature.</p>

<p>The reasons that I'm going with this solution rather than fixing /proc/kcore
is that:</p>

<p>

<ul>

<li>to add a kclist entry for each module would mean hacking the kclist
  structure into vm_struct's ->page pointer with disgusting hacks.  I think
  we can all agree that this isn't the way to go.  The alternative is to
  create Yet Another Memory Allocator, and this isn't something I want to
  see in what is now an embedded architecture.</li>

<li>we'd need to find some way to dynamically reserve the virtual mapped
  memory regions for the kernel direct mapped RAM.  Since ARM uses a
  generic memory initialisation implementation which handles contiguous and
  discontiguous memory, it doesn't lend itself well to the kclist approach,
  and I'm not about to add extra callbacks from init/main.c (so we have
  kmalloc available) just to support this.</li>

</ul>

</p>

<p>If someone _else_ wants to put the effort into fixing ARM modules to work
nicely with /proc/kcore, be my guest - I'm just no longer interested in this
problem space.</p>

<p>Maybe in 2.7 a generic "reserve an area of memory in this region" function
like __get_vm_area below is in order?</p>

<p>Therefore, I'm providing a patch which adds the necessary changes to the
core kernel code to make the current modules solution work for ARM.</p>

</quote>

<p>Linus Torvalds suggested just removing /proc/kcore entirely. He said, <quote
who="Linus Torvalds">Does anybody actually _use_ /proc/kcore? It was one of
those "cool feature" things, but I certainly haven't ever used it myself
except for testing, and it's historically often been broken after various
kernel infrastructure updates, and people haven't complained..</quote></p>

<p>John Bradford said he'd used it on a few rare occassions, to recover files
that had been in RAM when its application had crashed. Daniel Jacobowitz also
said he used /proc/kcore for debugging, though he said he'd much rather have
kgdb in the kernel. And Tony Luck from Intel disclaimed:</p>

<quote who="Tony Luck">

<p>I only fixed it up because someone at SGI complained that my ia64 kernel
virtual space re-arrangements had broken it (even more ... it had never been
right for ia64).</p>

<p>Even now, it's still full of races (e.g. if you start gdb to look at
/proc/kcore, then load or unload modules).</p>

<p>Plus gdb doesn't really understand that kcore is a special file, so
it caches values (read "jiffies" twice and notice that it doesn't change
... because gdb cached the read).</p>

<p>So don't mistake my recent activity fixing kcore for interest in its
continued existence.</p>

</quote>

<p>Alan Cox urged Linus to put kgdb in the kernel, and added that he wouldn't
mind seeing /proc/kcore become arch-specific, or even go away altogether. Eli
Carter also said he'd like to see kgdb in the kernel.</p>

<p>John Levon said that /proc/kcore was the only way to figure
out the kernel pointer size from user-space, and he pointed out
that all suggestions for how to do it had objections listed in an <a
href="http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=104205635900001&amp;r=1&amp;w=2">earlier
linux-kernel discussion</a>. Russell summarized, <quote who="Russell
King">oprofile requires /proc/kcore support</quote>. Linus said, <quote
who="Linus Torvalds">Why not just fix the oprofile interfaces to contain that
information? You already have to export CPU type, buffer size etc..</quote>
John said he'd be happy to do that, but he'd been under the impression that
such a patch would be rejected as unnecessary bloat. He whipped up a patch
and posted it.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Development Strategy For Unmaintained Drivers"
  subject="Re: Fix up riscom8 driver to use work queues instead of task queueing."
  posts="12"
  startdate="18 Aug 2003 10:09:41 -0800"
  enddate="18 Aug 2003 13:24:29 -0800"
>
<topic>SMP</topic>

<p>In the course of discussion, Russell King suggested that for older serial
drivers, the <quote who="Russell King">correct approach is for someone to
convert them to use the new serial driver core (and fix the driver core
interface to allow them to work with it.)</quote> He didn't have any of
that hardware, but he'd been hoping for someone who did to step up and fix
them. Linus replied:</p>

<quote who="Linus Torvalds">

<p>Hey, I'm all for that for 2.7.x. In the meantime, they've been broken
for a year, so let's just try to fix them up into a "limping along" state.</p>

<p>I don't have the hardware either, but at least now they should be
testable on UP configurations (SMP is generally still broken due to the
drivers expecting to be able to disable all interrups globally instead of
using proper locking).</p>

<p>I'd be interested to hear whether the dang things work. Of course, there
probably aren't that many people around with the hardware any more. I could
just have added them to the BROKEN list, but since they _might_ work it
seemed like a better idea to be hugely optimistic instead ;)</p>

</quote>

<p>Russell replied, <quote who="Russell King">True.  However, there is the
opposite point of view which is equally valid.  There aren't many people with
the hardware, and the people that there are aren't interested in development
kernel series, so even if we did convert them during 2.7, we wouldn't hear
about it until 2.8.</quote> And Linus said:</p>

<quote who="Linus Torvalds">

<p>Yes. However, what worries me more is that there are people who have the
hardware, but because the driver won't even compile for them, they just go
"oh, well, I'll try it again when the _real_ 2.6.0 hits the streets".</p>

<p>Which obviously won't work.</p>

<p>So I'm trying to make sure that all the broken drivers are gotten to
a working state. Right now, considering how long they've been broken, that
means "it must compile" so that people can test them.</p>

<p>The "leave it broken, so that somebody will fix it properly some day"
approach is a fine one for early development series. But right now I'd prefer
to see patches to make drivers compile cleanly, even if people can't test
them on real hardware.</p>

<p>The intersection of people who have the hardware, and people who have
the time/knowledge to convert a driver, may be empty. Expecially for odd
hardware. So let's get those drivers compiling, even if we can't test them,
so that others _can_ test them.</p>

</quote>

</section>

<section
  title="New AEM (Asynchronous Event Mechanism) For Linux"
  subject="[ANNOUNCE] Supporting asynchronous events in Linux with AEM"
  posts="1"
  startdate="20 Aug 2003 12:49:40 -0800"
>

<p>Frederic Rossi announced:</p>

<quote who="Frederic Rossi">

<p>I'd like to announce the availability of AEM (async. event mech.). This
project is an attempt to provide a generic and native support for asynchronous
events in the Linux kernel.</p>

<p>See below for an overview of AEM. More information can be found here <a
href="http://aem.sourceforge.net">http://aem.sourceforge.net</a></p>

<p>Your comments are valuable and I will be pleased to get any feedback
from you.</p>

<p><font size="+1">Overview</font></p>

<p>The primary objective of AEM is to provide a native kernel mechanism,
which doesn't make use of other techniques to support the semantic. The
reason behind this is to be able to handle a very huge number of events in
a scalable and responsive way.</p>

<p>Basically, AEM allows an application to register to system events by
supplying user-space event handlers during registration. When an event
occurs in the kernel the corresponding event handler is executed with the
data in parameter.</p>

<p>AEM is a communication mechanism more than a notification mechanism in the
sense the main goal is really to pass information quickly from the kernel to
the user space applications, both ways. This means the data can be modified
by event handlers and be re-interpreted when back into the kernel.</p>

<p>The second goal behind AEM is to provide the atomic execution of user
space handlers directly in reaction to events. Priorities can be associated
with events to give high priority events the possibility to boost their
corresponding processes. As opposed to other styles of event monitoring
mechanisms AEM is working bottom-up, i.e user processes are executed/created
by system events.</p>

<p>Generally, we assume that event handlers are short lived executing quickly
in the same execution context as the calling process. But if necessary an
event handler can also be executed inside a new process context permitting
its execution in parallel with the main thread of execution. In this case,
processes are created on the fly.</p>

<p>I'm taking special care to integrate AEM with existing mechanisms
providing similar, although different, functionalities. I want to stress
the fact that the goal of AEM is not to replace what already exist but to
provide a complementary support in Linux.</p>

<p>I'm conscious the current implementation is not perfect and a lot of work
is still to be done. Any suggestion for improvement is welcome.</p>

<font size="+1">Current status</font>

<p>Specific structures and activation points for events must be present in the
kernel. This is implemented by a patch supplying this basic infrastructure.</p>

<p>The whole implementation is provided by independent kernel modules. One
module supplies the core functionalities while the other modules supply
specific implementations of event handling mechanisms (fetching and handling
of data). Also, definitions of the calling APIs are implemented by modules.</p>

<p>This architecture is very flexible. Different implementations can coexist
in the same time. This gives the possibility to stay compatible in case of
a change of API or semantics.</p>

<p>AEM is currently supported on Linux kernels 2.6.0-test1 and 2.4.20.</p>

</quote>

</section>

<section
  title="FUSD v1.10 Released"
  subject="[ANNOUNCE] FUSD v1.10 now available"
  posts="2"
  startdate="20 Aug 2003 14:53:49 -0800"
  enddate="21 Aug 2003 11:51:15 -0800"
>
<topic>FS: devfs</topic>
<topic>Real-Time</topic>
<topic>SMP</topic>

<p>Jeremy Elson announced <a
href="http://www.circlemud.org/~jelson/software/fusd">FUSD v1.10</a>:</p>

<quote who="Jeremy Elson">

<p>We're happy to announce release 1.10 of FUSD, the Linux Framework for
User-Space Devices.</p>

<p>If you have a Linux 2.4 kernel running devfs, FUSD is a combination of Linux
kernel module and userspace library that lets you write userspace programs
that can act as character device drivers for files under /dev.  Your program
reigsters the device with the kernel module; then, it proxies system calls
(e.g.,  open(), read()...) to your program.  Your userspace program can respond
to these system calls as a kernel module would.  Strict error checking at
the user/kernel boundary prevents such userspace drivers from corrupting each
other, the kernel, or even the processes using the devices they manage.</p>

<p>v1.10 has a number of enhancements, including:</p>

<p>

<ul>

<li>Now safe for SMP and preemptible kernels</li>

<li>Includes both C and Python bindings</li>

<li>/dev/fusd/status device shows a summary of devices registered and
     in use</li>

<li>Updated documentation and various other bugfixes</li>

</ul>

</p>

<p>Unfortunately, FUSD does NOT work under later 2.5 or any 2.6 kernels.
The recent changes to the devfs API break FUSD in a way that we haven't yet
looked into fixing.</p>

</quote>

</section>

</kc>

