<?xml version="1.0" ?>

<kc>

<title>Kernel Traffic</title>

<author contact="mailto:zbrown@tumblerings.org">Zack Brown</author>

<issue num="220" date="27 Jun 2003 00:00:00 -0800" />

<intro>

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</intro>

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<person posts="1" size="2" who="Zsolt Babak" />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Brian McGroarty" />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="&quot;Nick Bartos&quot;" />
<person posts="1" size="2" who="Scott Robert Ladd" />
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<person posts="1" size="2" who="Ian Packer" />
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<person posts="1" size="2" who=" &lt;dpsmiles@turing.acm.org&gt;" />
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<section
  title="Support For LM78 Hardware Monitoring Chips In 2.5"
  subject="[RFC PATCH] Add lm78 sensor chip support (2.5.70)"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0306.1/0094.html"
  posts="4"
  startdate="08 Jun 2003 14:33:34 -0800"
  enddate="16 Jun 2003 10:42:13 -0800"
>
<topic>FS: sysfs</topic>
<topic>Version Control</topic>

<mention>Greg KH</mention>

<p>Mark M. Hoffman said:</p>

<quote who="Mark M. Hoffman">

<p>This patch vs. 2.5.70 adds support for LM78, LM78-J, and LM79 sensors
chips based on lm_sensors project CVS.  This works on one of my boards.</p>

<p>I want to draw attention to something I did with this driver by
comparing it to it87.c in 2.5.70:</p>

<p>&gt; #define IT87_INIT_TEMP_HIGH_1 600<br />
&gt; #define IT87_INIT_TEMP_LOW_1  200</p>

<p>The hardware uses degrees C, and sysfs uses degrees C * 1000.  But these
#defines are apparently in units of degrees C * 10.  This arbitrary
intermediate representation bugs me.  And given the new 2.5 sysfs standard,
it's unnecessary.</p>

<p>In this patch for lm78, I rewrote the conversion routines in terms of
the sysfs units - getting rid of the intermediate nonsense.  If there are
no objections, I'm going to start passing patches to do this to the other
sensor chip drivers in 2.5 as well.  It would be nice to get some help with
this too... especially since I don't have all that hardware at hand to test
the results.</p>

</quote>

<p>Greg KH asked if Mark wanted this included in the main tree, and Mark
replied, <quote who="Mark M. Hoffman">I was hoping to get some feedback w.r.t.
the conversion routines...  but I guess silence is consent.  Please pass
this on in the next round.</quote> So a few days later Greg applied it,
and the thread ended.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Mailing List And Other Kernel Discussion Archives"
  subject="Anybody gotta list archive tarball?"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0306.1/1186.html"
  posts="8"
  startdate="12 Jun 2003 06:14:46 -0800"
  enddate="13 Jun 2003 12:17:49 -0800"
>

<p>Jonathan Corbet asked, <quote who="Jonathan Corbet">Does anybody happen
to have (and is willing to share) a tarball containing archives of this list
going back well into the 90's?  I am, shall we say, researching the activities
of certain companies (when I should really be working on driver books) and
something greppable would be most helpful.</quote> Andries Brouwer replied:</p>

<quote who="Andries Brouwer">

<p>I tend to collect such things, but lost early stuff in disk crashes.
There is here</p>

<p>- stuff from <a href="ftp://ftp.uwsg.iu.edu/linux/mail.archive/kernel/">ftp://ftp.uwsg.iu.edu/linux/mail.archive/kernel/</a><br />
  1 Mar 1996 - now.</p>

<p>[you can ftp that yourself, I suppose]</p>

<p>- stuff from linuxwww.db.erau.edu<br />
  96.06-99.09.</p>

<p>- linux-activists list archive<br />
  Very fragmentary, Oct 1991 to Oct 1993.<br />
  Also Oct 1993 to Jul 1995.<br />
  Also Jan 1992 to Dec 1993.</p>

<p>- linux-kernel<br />
  Jul 1995 to Apr 1996.</p>

<p>[lots of garbage in various different formats and from various sources;
very time consuming to sort out; different archives are very similar  
but do not have precisely the same posts; I can make the raw stuff
available if you want - maybe you don't want]</p>

</quote>

<p>Rob Landley also remarked, <quote who="Rob Landley">the oldest
linux list archive I know of is the one the kansas city people have. <a
href="http://www.kclug.org/old_archives/linux-activists/">http://www.kclug.org/old_archives/linux-activists/</a></quote></p>

<p>Elsewhere, under the Subject: <a
href="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0306.1/1619.html">linux-activist
archives</a>, Hal Duston said:</p>

<quote who="Hal Duston">

<p>I am the webmaster for kclug.org, and can tar up the stuff I've created
if you like.  I grabbed the archives from other publicly available locations
several years ago.  I would assume you would rather have the originals instead
of my hackish processing of them.  I do still have them as well if the sites
I obtained them from aren't available anymore.</p>

<p>Here is one of my sources:<br />
<a href="ftp://tsx-11.mit.edu/pub/linux/mail-archive/">ftp://tsx-11.mit.edu/pub/linux/mail-archive/</a></p>

<p>Looks like my other source has been moved there as well.</p>

</quote>

<p>Jonathan replied:</p>

<quote who="Jonathan Corbet">

<p>Thanks.  linux-activists, I think, predates the era I'm trying to
research now.  I'd like to snarf it at some point and put together the
ultimate archive, but that comes later.</p>

<p>For now, I've managed to get the linux-kernel archives for the last 8 years
or so, thanks to responses to my original message - thanks.  I've gotten
a little distracted now that SCO has fingered RCU as one of its areas of
concern...I think enough has been dug up now that they won't get much further
with *that* argument.  Time for some more general trolling...</p>

</quote>

</section>

<section
  title="Linux 2.4.21 Released"
  subject="linux-2.4.21 released"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0306.1/1524.html"
  posts="36"
  startdate="13 Jun 2003 06:53:33 -0800"
  enddate="16 Jun 2003 14:22:45 -0800"
>
<topic>FS: XFS</topic>
<topic>Power Management: ACPI</topic>
<topic>Real-Time</topic>

<mention>Marcelo Tosatti</mention>
<mention>Robert Love</mention>

<p>Marcelo Tosatti released <a
href="http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.4/ChangeLog-2.4.21">2.4.21</a>,
with no changes from the 2.4.21-rc8 release. A lot of folks were disappointed
that ACPI had not been updated to include the latest patches. Someone also
suggested including XFS, and Christoph Hellwig replied, <quote who="Christoph
Hellwig">I'll start feeding the few remaining core changes to Marcelo now,
the actual filesystem then is just yet another driver that could be merged
any time :)</quote> Other folks suggested the preemption patches; but Robert
Love said these were too invasive for the stable series at that point,
although they were going into 2.5.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="GNU &quot;Free Documentation License&quot; Disallowed From Kernel Sources"
  subject="GFDL in the kernel tree"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0306.1/1928.html"
  posts="10"
  startdate="15 Jun 2003 05:07:58 -0800"
  enddate="16 Jun 2003 11:21:46 -0800"
>

<p>Christoph Hellwig reported:</p>

<quote who="Christoph Hellwig">

<p>2.5.71 introduces two GFDL-licensed files in the kernel tree, there's
a few problems with this, because:</p>

<p>

<ol>

<li>COPYING in the toplevel says the kernel tree is GPLv2, GFDL is
GPL incompatible.</li>

<li>Documentation/DocBook/gadget.tmpl, one of the files, includes
extracted from source files licensed under GPL, making this
a GPL license violation.</li>

<li>Documentation/kobject.txt, the other files claims it's under
GFDL but doesn't actually include the license text as mandated
by the GFDL.</li>

</ol>

</p>

<p>And of course there's still all those nasty issue with GFDL like
invariant sections and cover texts that make at least the debian-devel
list believe it's an unfree license..</p>

<p>Folks, could we please only use GPL-compatible licenses in the kernel
tree?</p>

</quote>

<p>Linus Torvalds replied:</p>

<quote who="Linus Torvalds">

<p>I'd agree. The GFDL is a disaster anyway.  You can't even fix bugs in the
documentation without having to change the title etc. There are much
better licenses around.</p>

<p>I'd say we just remove the files.</p>

</quote>

</section>

<section
  title="BitKeeper-to-Subversion Gateway"
  subject="bkSVN live"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0306.1/1939.html"
  posts="4"
  startdate="15 Jun 2003 05:36:31 -0800"
  enddate="16 Jun 2003 05:44:44 -0800"
>
<topic>Version Control</topic>

<p>Ben Collins announced:</p>

<quote who="Ben Collins">

<p>Thanks to Larry, the bkSVN repo is now live. It's actually bkcvs2svn,
since I am using bkcvs's metadata. However subversion is able to make
better use of the metadata than CVS can. You can get better log output,
for one. Also, you can more easily determine the scope of a change,
since subversion supports changesets.</p>

<p>If you aren't familiar with subversion, please visit the URL in my sig.
Please do not ask me a lot of questions about it. First off, it's very
well documented, and second off, I am not what I would consider an
expert on the internals of SVN.</p>

<p>And please DO NOT email linux-kernel with any comments, suggestions,
questions regarding subversion. It is way off topic. Subversion !=
BitKeeper, and it's not intended to replace it. So this isn't a
competition. Otherwise, Larry wouldn't feel so comfortable with hosting
the repo :)</p>

<p>For those that know SVN, you need a recent (e.g. upcoming 0.24
release of SVN, or current trunk) client. I am using revision r6227. If you
need a client just for testing, you can get a ra_svn only static binary from <a
href="http://www.phunnypharm.org/pub/svn/clients/linux/">http://www.phunnypharm.org/pub/svn/clients/linux/</a>.
i386, sparc and ia64 are there. I can build more if needed (I think I have
access to just about anything). You'll need glibc 2.3 for the static clients
since it uses NSS modules, and well, it just wont work with 2.2/2.1/etc. If
you want to build your own, remember, you don't need berkeley DB, or neon
to access this repo.</p>

<p>Now, finally the SVN URL's:</p>

<p>        svn://kernel.bkbits.net/linux-2.4</p>

<p>        svn://kernel.bkbits.net/linux-2.5</p>

<p>WAIT. If you don't know anything about SVN repo layouts, just remember
this:</p>

<pre>        REPO_BASE/trunk         Primary (aka HEAD) development
        REPO_BASE/tags/*        Tagged revsions 
        REPO_BASE/branches/*    Other development lines (not used in bkSVN)</pre>

<p>So, to get the main development for say 2.5:</p>

<p># svn co svn://kernel.bkbits.net/linux-2.5/trunk linux-2.5-bkbits</p>

<p>Will checkout the main 2.5 trunk into a directory called
linux-2.5-bkbits. Then you can cd into that directory and do "svn up"
just like CVS :). The "svn log" output is much better than in CVS, since
you can do things like "svn log drivers/usb" and get a single list of
revisions that affected anything in drivers/usb, unlike CVS where you
would get history for all files seperately. "svn help" is really useful
aswell.</p>

<p>If you want to checkout a particular version:</p>

<p># svn co svn://kernel.bkbits.net/linux-2.5/tags/v2.5.60 linux-2.5.60</p>

<p>Or diff versions, via URL, without a working copy:</p>

<p># svn diff svn://kernel.bkbits.net/linux-2.4/tags/v2.4.19 svn://kernel.bkbits.net/linux-2.4/tags/v2.4.20 &gt; patch-2.4.20.diff</p>

</quote>

<p>Geert Uytterhoeven tried with an earlier version and got "svn: Malformed
network data" errors, and asked, <quote who="Geert Uytterhoeven">Can you
confirm that 0.23.0 (r5962) (from Debian unstable) is too old, or is this
a PPC-specific problem?</quote> Ben replied, <quote who="Ben Collins">Too
old. 0.24 will release with some incompatible revamps to the ra_svn protocol,
but it improves checkout over high latency by a noticable amount.</quote></p>

</section>

<section
  title="Status Of ACPI In 2.5"
  subject="ACPI broken... again!"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0306.2/0336.html"
  posts="5"
  startdate="17 Jun 2003 06:44:43 -0800"
  enddate="17 Jun 2003 10:02:47 -0800"
>
<topic>Microsoft</topic>
<topic>Power Management: ACPI</topic>
<topic>USB</topic>

<mention>Andrew Grover</mention>

<p>Felix von Leitner was unable to get ACPI working under kernel 2.5.70,
on any of the five machines he tried it on. He said:</p>

<quote who="Felix von Leitner">

<p>The symptom is that eth0 does not see the others.  /proc/interrupts has
the correct interrupt listed, so it took me a while to suspect ACPI.
agpgart also crashes, and firewire and USB didn't find any devices.</p>

<p>Why oh why is ACPI so horrendously broken?</p>

<p>And more to the point: if it _is_ this broken, why ship it at all?  I
don't recall a single moment where ACPI did anything good for me, only
crashes, data loss and general brokenness.  This may be a technology
fitting Microsoft and Intel PCs, but why give it even more leverage by
supporting it in Linux?  I say rip this abomination right out of the   
kernel and be done with it.</p>

</quote>

<p>Someone explained why it was so hard to get ACPI right, saying,
"its a moderately bad spec that your vendor implemented to deal with a
horrid redmond interpreter.  (And, to make things worse, the linux-acpi
team specifically insists on implementing the spec, not the reality. "We
refuse to be bug-for-bug compatible with the other major implementation."
So linux-acpi is "right" but redmond-acpi is tested and actually works.)"</p>

<p>Several other folks asked Felix for more information about his hardware, and
Andrew Grover came down on him for complaining instead of working to fix the
problems.</p>

</section>

</kc>

