<?xml version="1.0" ?>

<kc>

<title>Kernel Traffic</title>

<author contact="mailto:zbrown@tumblerings.org">Zack Brown</author>

<issue num="160" date="01 Apr 2002 00:00:00 -0800" />

<stats posts="1584" size="7194" contrib="465" multiples="233" lastweek="192">

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<section
  title="Status Of RFC 2385 Under Linux"
  subject="RFC2385 (MD5 signature in TCP packets) support"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0203.1/1130.html"
  posts="30"
  startdate="15 Mar 2002 14:36:48 -0800"
  enddate="23 Mar 2002 05:12:55 -0800"
>
<topic>Networking</topic>

<p>David Schwartz asked if anyone was working on support for <a
href="http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2385.html">Protection of BGP Sessions via
the TCP MD5 Signature Option</a> under Linux. He added, <quote who="David
Schwartz">My interest for this is mostly for Zebra to be able to make secure
BGP connections, so I would also contribute a patch for Zebra to support this
feature on Linux.</quote>Alan Cox replied, <quote who="Alan Cox">Since this
memo was first issued (under a different title), the MD5 algorithm has been
found to be vulnerable to collision search attacks [Dobb], and is considered
by some to be insufficiently strong for this type of application.</quote>
Elsewhere, David S. Miller had harsher words:</p>

<quote who="David S. Miller">

<p>There is no reason to not be doing this MD5 garbage in userspace.
Whoever thought to do this in the protocol itself was smoking something.</p>

<p>And if people want encryption they can use ipsec.  And if ipsec is broken
it should be fixed because adding a new abomination to MD5.</p>

<p>Maybe I'm missing something, but I see no reason this MD5 stuff belongs
in the protocol and not in the APP.</p>

</quote>

<p>Alan added that even in userspace, MD5 was not the best choice. He
said, <quote who="Alan Cox">The crypto folks prefer SHA and for good
reasons.</quote> David Schwartz replied:</p>

<quote who="David Schwartz">

<p>There is no problem with MD5 that makes it unsuitable for this particular
application. A SHA signature would enlarge each packet, further reducing
the effective MTU. This would increase the cost of what was intended to be
a simple mechanism to solve a specific problem (spoofed SYNs/RSTs).</p>

<p>What it comes down to is simply whether you care whether Linux machines
can interoperate with Cisco's BGP authentication scheme. This feature would
be very useful to me, so I personally do care, even if the scheme is not
the best possible scheme.</p>

</quote>

<p>David S. Miller replied that ignoring valid RST frames would break TCP,
and Alan said:</p>

<quote who="Alan Cox">

<p>If they don't have the right MD5 frame they are not valid. The RFC came
about because people discovered RST spoofing cisco backbone routers was a
great way to remove unwanted ISP's. Then people discovered that spoofing
icmp df framesizes down to 68 bytes worked anyway and the whole MD5 thing
went to shit.</p>

<p>Later crypto folks showed that MD5 is not always good enough</p>

<p>Finally if you are patient and extremely irritating you can capture BGP
sessions, predict the next time the other end will initiate that sequence
number and do BGP replay games. Fortunately thats extremely hard.</p>

<p>IPSEC has a lot more going for it, but most cisco's still only support
the MD5 stuff. However if you can get/set IP/TCP options in user space you
could I guess do it that way</p>

</quote>

<p>David S. Miller replied, <quote who="David S. Miller">I frankly don't care
what Cisco's do or do not do.  I don't care if Cisco made a rotten decision.
I'm not going to let Cisco's mistakes crap up Linux's networking.</quote>
He pointed out that Alan's point about the frames actually being invalid
was not a fair objection. MD5 signatures, he went on, were inherently against the
simplicity and clarity required for RST to function properly. For that reason,
PAWS timestamps and other checks were disabled for RST frames. Only the sequence
number would be verified. So it made no sense to say the frames were invalid
just because of an MD5 signature that was never used.</p>

<p>Alan felt David was talking out of his ass, and said, <quote who="Alan
Cox">I'm not saying the RFC is a good idea (tho its a needed patch to use
Linux for backbone routing sanely with most vendors BGP kit). Your argument
about the RST frame is however pure horseshit.</quote> But David S. Miller
reasserted, <quote who="David S. Miller">Look, TCP is the last place more
complexity needs to exist.  Errors in logic in TCP need to be dealt with
by breaking the connection and spitting a RST out, and it must be done in
a way that is as easy to verify as possible.</quote></p>

<p>Alan still disagreed, but said instead, <quote who="Alan Cox">I've
actually got a more constructive suggestion for the zebra folks.  Route the
BGP crap through a netlink tap device, mangle and unmangle the tcp frames
in luserspace. Saves doing TCP in userspace, saves screwing up Dave's
nice networking stack.  You'll still need to kill SACK support to make it
fit.</quote> And David S. Miller added, <quote who="David S. Miller">Another
solution could involve a netfilter module to mangle the packets.</quote></p>

<p>Alan thought David S. Miller's solution would be fast enough for David
Schwartz's needs, but then David S. Miller came back with, <quote who="David
S. Miller">After some thinking, the TAP idea is even nicer as it guarentees
zero overhead, make it such that you only route the BGP stuff over the device
having the TAP attached (make a dummy eth alias just for this purpose).</quote>
Mike Fedyk pointed out that this wouldn't be more efficient, because <quote
who="Mike Fedyk">You'd have to use netfilter to mark the correct packets,
then route on that mark to the dummy interface.</quote> But David S. Miller
said, <quote who="David S. Miller">You can bind sockets to specific devices
under Linux, this does not require netfilter.</quote></p>

<p>End of thread.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Maximum Number Of Threads On A System"
  subject="max number of threads on a system"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0203.2/1377.html"
  posts="10"
  startdate="21 Mar 2002 17:05:39 -0800"
  enddate="25 Mar 2002 01:10:49 -0800"
>
<topic>FS: sysfs</topic>

<mention>Davide Libenzi</mention>
<mention>Bill Davidsen</mention>

<p>Someone asked what the maximum number of threads was on a Linux system. The
poster saw lockups after creating around 250 or 275 threads, and wanted to
increase the limit. David Schwartz suggested fixing the bug rather than trying
to work around it. But he added, <quote who="David Schwartz">In any event,
don't create so many threads. Create threads only to keep CPUs busy or to
pend I/Os that can't be done asynchronously.</quote> Davide Libenzi suggested
'ulimit&#160;-u' to get the maximum allowable threads on a system, but Bill
Davidsen said that /proc/sys/kernel/threads-max was the true system limit.
James Bourne remarked, <quote who="James Bourne">One thing to note here, using
pthreads there is a limit of 1024 threads per process.  There are patches to
glibc to increase this to a larger number (4096 or 8192).</quote> And at one
point Peter W&#230;chtler added, <quote who="Peter W&#230;chtler">There is
another limit creeping in: pthread mmap()s 2 MB of stack for each thread. So
you run out of address space on 32 bit systems with threads &gt; 1024
(and smaller)</quote></p>

</section>

<section
  title="Maximum Partition Size"
  subject="max partition size"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0203.2/1414.html"
  posts="3"
  startdate="21 Mar 2002 23:50:37 -0800"
  enddate="22 Mar 2002 06:58:23 -0800"
>
<topic>Disk Arrays: LVM</topic>
<topic>FS: ext2</topic>
<topic>FS: ext3</topic>

<mention>Jens Axboe</mention>
<mention>Michal Jaegermann</mention>
<mention>Ben LaHaise</mention>

<p>Michal Jaegermann asked what the maximum paritition size was on ext2
or ext3.  He was running into problems with partitions around 2 terabytes
in size. Andreas Dilger replied:</p>

<quote who="Andreas Dilger">

<p>2TB is the limit for all block devices in 2.2 and 2.4 kernels.  This is
from 2^32 * 512 byte sectors.  Using LVM or MD devices will not overcome
this limitation.</p>

<p>There was a patch floating around which extended the block counts to 64-bit
ints (Jens Axboe and/or Ben LaHaise posted it), and I think at least part of
it is in 2.5.  Even if you have 64-bit block counts, there are other issues
which pop up fairly soon - 32-bit page indexes and other 32-bit overflows
in calculations in the ext2 code.  There is definitely a hard limit at 16TB
for 4kB block ext2 filesystems, but I suspect you will have problems at 8TB
even after the 2TB block device limit is lifted.</p>

</quote>

</section>

<section
  title="SSSCA Discussion"
  subject="SSSCA Hits the Senate"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0203.3/0214.html"
  posts="22"
  startdate="22 Mar 2002 17:09:23 -0800"
  enddate="26 Mar 2002 12:30:56 -0800"
>
<topic>Legal Issues</topic>
<topic>Microsoft</topic>
<topic>Patents</topic>

<mention>Andre Hedrick</mention>

<p>Paul G. Allen reported:</p>

<quote who="Paul G. Allen">

<p>This is bad, very bad. If the bill passes as written, all software will
be subject to it. Senator Hollings and his cronies (and anyone who thinks
like them) need to get a clue. They need to be out of office.</p>

<p>(My apologies in advance if this does not come across as text. My regular
system is broken and I'm forced to use Winsucks and Nutscrape for my mail.)</p>

<p><a
href="http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51274,00.html">http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51274,00.html</a></p>

</quote>

<p>At one point, Herman Oosthuysen said:</p>

<quote who="Herman Oosthuysen">

<p>The obvious solution is to continue the way Richard Stallman envisaged:
<i>Distribute all code in source form only - no binary distributions.</i></p>

<p>This way, the source files are protected under freedom of speech rules
and the originator of the work is safe.</p>

<p>It is then up to the user to do with the code what he/she wants.</p>

<p>I think that while many people think that Richard is paranoid, he actually
was far more prophetic than most people wants to give him credit for...</p>

</quote>

<p>Florian Weimer replied, <quote who="Florian Weimer">Unfortunately, this
works only in the U.S.  Other countries which will follow the US leadership
in consumer suppression regulate free speech to make it conforming to law.
I agree, though, that source-only distribution avoids many problems and
is preferable.</quote></p>

<p>At one point, Andre Hedrick gave a pointer to <a
href="http://www.politechbot.com/docs/cbdtpa/">Declan McCullagh's Politich</a>
page.</p>

<p>Elsewhere, Itai Nahshon remarked, <quote who="Itai Nahshon">Worst thing
happens if somebody gets a patent for the copy protection schemes...</quote>
Alan Cox replied, <quote who="Alan Cox">Microsoft already do.</quote> But
Herman Oosthuysen replied, <quote who="Herman Oosthuysen">The bill says
that the protection scheme must be open source, so no M$ tax.  I guess lots
of Americans are going to tune in to European content if this bill passes.
It should be a boon to Canada and Mexico too.  Maybe we should support this
bill...</quote> But Rik van Riel said:</p>

<quote who="Rik van Riel">

<p>The fact that the source code is available doesn't give you the right to
use it, if some company has a patent on the technology ...</p>

<p>I hope this law will be so absolutely crippling to the USA that the rest
of the world will see the devastating effects before having the time to pass
similar laws too.</p>

</quote>

<p>But Herman replied:</p>

<quote who="Herman Oosthuysen">

<p>If the law requires you to use it, then M$ won't be able to charge
royalties for a patent on it. There are enough precedents of that kind of
thing, so it will be free.</p>

<p>The whole idea however remains impractical, so even if it does pass into
law, it would be largely irrelivant to any marginally competent geek.</p>

<p>What the music industry fails to understand, is that the music doesn't
sell because it is bad.  No amount of controls can compensate for that.
Garbage in, Garbage out...  Maybe they should go back to vinyl records that
play on wind-up players with rose thorn pickups.  That will instantly make
music recordings incompatible with all CD equipment and nobody will want to
copy it...</p>

</quote>

<p>Itai Nahshon gave a link to <a
href="http://cryptome.org/ms-drm-os.htm">Microsoft's patent</a>.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Status Of ftape In 2.4"
  subject="ftape status in 2.4"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0203.2/1636.html"
  posts="2"
  startdate="23 Mar 2002 08:50:59 -0800"
  enddate="23 Mar 2002 11:47:45 -0800"
>

<mention>Jim MacBaine</mention>

<p>Jim MacBaine asked if there were a working ftape driver for 2.4, and Mikael
Pettersson replied, <quote who="Mikael Pettersson">The one included in current
2.4 kernels should still work for most ftape hardware. 2.5 has a minor but
fixable compile problem due to the virt_to_bus() interface change.</quote>
He added of the drivers, that <quote who="Mikael Pettersson">They're not
exactly popular, but I still use my old Seagate/Conner TR-3 unit on a remote
server.</quote></p>

</section>

<section
  title="New NTFS Driver"
  subject="ANN: New NTFS driver (2.0.0/TNG) now finished."
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0203.3/0130.html"
  posts="9"
  startdate="24 Mar 2002 18:26:41 -0800"
  enddate="25 Mar 2002 11:47:56 -0800"
>
<topic>FS: NTFS</topic>
<topic>Real-Time</topic>
<topic>SMP</topic>
<topic>Version Control</topic>

<mention>David Woodhouse</mention>
<mention>Christoph Hellwig</mention>

<p>Anton Altaparmakov announced:</p>

<quote who="Anton Altaparmakov">

<p>This is to announce that the new NTFS Linux kernel driver 2.0.0 (formerly
NTFS TNG) is now finished (read-only). It is for kernel 2.5.7 only and will
be submitted to Linus for inclusion in the 2.5 kernel series when Linus
returns from his holiday.</p>

<p>The driver has been tested extensively and has survived all tests so
far.</p>

<p>It is fully compatible with kernel preemption and SMP. And it should work
on both little endian and big endian architectures, and both on 32 and 64
bit architectures. Note, only ia32 has actually been tested and there may be
problems with architectures not supporting unaligned accesses. Any volunteers
for non-ia32 architectures?</p>

<p>The new driver is significantly faster than the old driver (~20% in my
tests), uses less CPU time and generally is superior to the old driver. (-:</p>

<p>The driver can be compiled both with gcc-2.95 and gcc-2.96. gcc-3.x has
not been tested. (If anyone experiences compilation problems especially with
gcc-2.95 please let me know and they will be fixed ASAP!)</p>

<p>To try the driver either use BitKeeper to obtain a clone from the
repository:</p>

<p>        bk clone -q http://linux-ntfs.bkbits.net/ntfs-tng-2.5</p>

<p>Or if you already have a clone derived from an official kernel repository
you only need to pull in the changes:</p>

<p>        bk pull http://linux-ntfs.bkbits.net/ntfs-tng-2.5</p>

<p>And then checkout all the files using bk -r co -q from within the
repository directory.</p>

<p>For people not using BitKeeper patches for the standard 2.5.7 kernel are
available here:</p>

<p><a href="http://www-stu.christs.cam.ac.uk/~aia21/linux/linux-2.5.7-ntfs-2.0.0.patch.bz2">http://www-stu.christs.cam.ac.uk/~aia21/linux/linux-2.5.7-ntfs-2.0.0.patch.bz2</a><br />
(151kiB)</p>

<p><a href="http://www-stu.christs.cam.ac.uk/~aia21/linux/linux-2.5.7-ntfs-2.0.0.patch.gz">http://www-stu.christs.cam.ac.uk/~aia21/linux/linux-2.5.7-ntfs-2.0.0.patch.gz</a><br />
(199kiB)</p>

<p><a href="http://www-stu.christs.cam.ac.uk/~aia21/linux/linux-2.5.7-ntfs-2.0.0.patch">http://www-stu.christs.cam.ac.uk/~aia21/linux/linux-2.5.7-ntfs-2.0.0.patch</a><br />
(796kiB)</p>

<p>Finally, for people wanting to browse the source code on-line, point your
web browser at:</p>

<p>        <a
href="http://linux-ntfs.bkbits.net:8080/ntfs-tng-2.5">http://linux-ntfs.bkbits.net:8080/ntfs-tng-2.5</a></p>

<p>Please everyone courageous enough to use a bleeding edge kernel and who
is also an NTFS user give this a try and let me know if you encounter any
problems! - Thanks!</p>

</quote>

<p>Christoph Hellwig confirmed that the patch compiled for him with gcc
2.95.2.</p>

<p>Elsewhere, David Woodhouse pointed out that all architectures should support
unaligned access, and so Anton's concern that there may be problems with any
architecture not supporting that, was invalid. But Brad Boyer replied, <quote
who="Brad Boyer">Perhaps all architectures "should", but I can assure you that
many of them do no such thing. I didn't look at every current architecture,
but some notable ones like the brand new IA64, as well as some older chips
such as MIPS have some relatively complicated code in get_unaligned(),
which can be found in the appropriate include/asm-i&lt;arch&gt; directory
in the file unaligned.h. I suspect that at least some of these allow for an
exception handler to fake the capability in user space programs, but that isn't
something you can allow inside the kernel.</quote> And Alan Cox replied:</p>

<quote who="Alan Cox">

<p>The Linux kernel assumes and requires that a processor handles alignment
faults and fixups in kernel space.</p>

<p>This is done because there are many cases where an object is almost always
aligned and it is faster to assume alignment than to mess around with every
single chunk of data. Its tuned so those alignment traps should not be
occurring at a high rate.</p>

</quote>

</section>

<section
  title="Status Of ATM Maintainership"
  subject="Re: [PATCH] ATM locking fix."
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0203.3/0469.html"
  posts="6"
  startdate="26 Mar 2002 14:52:02 -0800"
  enddate="27 Mar 2002 17:56:41 -0800"
>

<p>David S. Miller applied an ATM patch, and remarked, <quote who="David
S. Miller">ATM sorely needs a maintainer.  Any of the kernel janitors want
to learn how ATM works? :-))))</quote> Dave Jones asked, <quote who="Dave
Jones">Isn't someone maintaining it outside the tree somewhere?</quote>
But David replied, <quote who="David S. Miller">If they are, they aren't
sending me any patches or updates, which effectively means it is still not
maintained.</quote></p>

</section>

<section
  title="Filesystem Benchmarks"
  subject="Filesystem benchmarks: ext2 vs ext3 vs jfs vs minix"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0203.3/0545.html"
  posts="13"
  startdate="27 Mar 2002 05:54:48 -0800"
  enddate="28 Mar 2002 03:11:52 -0800"
>
<topic>FS: ReiserFS</topic>
<topic>FS: XFS</topic>
<topic>FS: ext2</topic>
<topic>FS: ext3</topic>

<p>Matthew Kirkwood announced:</p>

<quote who="Matthew Kirkwood">

<p>A while ago, I did some longish runs of OSDB (osdb.sf.net)
against PostgreSQL 7.2.  All runs were on kernel 2.5.6 + the
dc395x driver and the futexes patch.  I'd have included
reiserfs too, but in 2.5.6 it seemed to oops on mount.  2.5.7
doesn't boot for me, but I'll run these again when a more
interesting kernel appears.</p>

<p>Hardware is: 2 x P3-450, 384Mb, 3 x 9Gb Quantum disks on
internal aic7xxx (new driver).  Except for a "vmstat 1", the
system was otherwise unused during the tests.  There was no
other mounted filesystem on the disk with the test partition.
The numbers seem pretty consistent -- if they're more than 5%
different, that's probably a valid comparision (no, I'm not a
statistician and can't justify that).</p>

<p>The scripts I used are available on request, but they do
roughly:</p>

<blockquote>
<p>
        stop postgres<br />
        umount<br />
        mkfs<br />
        mount<br />
        create postgres data directories<br />
        start postgres (incl. creating postgres database)<br />
        "osdb-pg --datadir /scratch/data-40mb/ --short"
</p>
</blockquote>

<p>"Tuning" key:<br />
"dd"    -- default PG, default FS opts<br />
"dn"    -- default PG, "noatime"<br />
"bn"    -- big PG buffers, "noatime"</p>

<pre>                PostgreSQL
        tuning? single  ir      mx-ir   oltp    mixed-oltp
                (sec)   (tps)   (sec)   (tps)   (sec)
ext2    dd      1304.72 66.64   214.25  188.50  230.55
        dn      1288.31 65.93   209.57  234.08  213.75   
        bn      1283.50 77.90   1867.71 192.43  226.77

ext3    dd      1303.84 66.87   212.49  66.06   361.04
        dn      1288.03 64.62   209.27  111.41  278.54
        bn      1285.32 65.98   1996.41 90.05   307.79

ext3-wb dn      1291.68 66.06   209.94  138.25  242.28
        bn      1287.31 98.42   2149.38 125.13  236.02

jfs     dd      1308.97 66.82   212.59  117.28  273.08
        dn      1288.60 65.08   211.56  116.18  218.22
        bn      1279.89 81.00   2059.26 114.20  225.56

minix   dd      1305.26 67.38   207.74  193.90  228.81
        dn      1331.27 67.14   210.07  223.70  214.33
        bn      1299.24 89.58   1988.31 231.17  231.17</pre>


<p>My conclusions:</p>

<p>

<ol>

<li>I'll have to spend more time learning to tune postgres,
   but clearly something went wrong there -- the
   "agg_simple_report" test accounted for almost all of the
   differences.</li>

<li>"noatime" is very useful switch for these circumstances.</li>

<li>The journalled filesystems do have measurable overhead
   for this workload.</li>

</ol>

</p>

<p>Questions:</p>

<p>

<ol>

<li>Is there anything else I should try in the way of fs
   options, etc?</li>

<li>What does jfs do in the way of data journalling?  Is it
   "ordered" or "writeback", in ext3-speak?  (I assume
   fully journalled data would give much worse performance.)</li>

</ol>

</p>

</quote>

<p>Andi Kleen asked if ext3 contained ordered data, and Matthew confirmed,
<quote who="Matthew Kirkwood">Yep.  Everything is default unless otherwise
stated.</quote> Andi also exclaimed in his same post, <quote who="Andi
Kleen">Wow minix is faster than ext2 @)  That certainly looks strange.</quote>
And Matthew replied, <quote who="Matthew Kirkwood">Yeah, I thought it was
a little odd.  Postgres does so much fsync()ing that I thought it may just
have been that the lower overhead won out over ext2's cleverer layout.
All the I/O was basically fsync-driven, so this test was only about write
performance.</quote> Andrew Morton replied:</p>

<quote who="Andrew Morton">

<p>For fsync-intensive loads ext3's best mode is generally data=journal.  That
way, an fsync is satisfied by a nice single linear write to the journal.</p>

<p>With a high volume of data you'll quickly exhaust the journal space so
it would also be beneficial to create a monster journal with, say, mke2fs
-J 400.</p>

</quote>

<p>Matthew said:</p>

<quote who="Matthew Kirkwood">

<p>Here we are.  This is with just a 200Mb journal (the partition
is only a little over 1Gb, and the datafiles grow fairly big,
so I didn't brave making it any bigger).</p>

<pre>        tuning? single  ir      mx-ir   oltp    mixed-oltp
                (sec)   (tps)   (sec)   (tps)   (sec)
ext3    bn      1285.32 65.98   1996.41 90.05   307.79
ext3-wb bn      1287.31 98.42   2149.38 125.13  236.02
ext3-jd bn      1306.90 72.07   1813.54 125.15  305.27</pre>

<p>The I/O load should be almost exclusively fsync-driven writes,
so I'm not sure how to account for the fact that the OLTP and
OLTP + misc (mostly read) activity give different numbers.</p>

<p>I'll try to find time to run these again tomorrow to convince
myself that all is sane, but these numbers are usually pretty
stable.</p>

</quote>

<p>Andrew was a bit disappointed, and added, <quote who="Andrew Morton">It
sounds like a useful and valid workload to optimise for.  So I'll take you
up on the offer of those scripts, please.</quote> Matthew sent them over.</p>

<p>Back in Andi's original reply, he asked if Matthew could also test XFS
(and elsewhere, Florin Andrei also asked for this). Matthew replied, <quote
who="Matthew Kirkwood">Sure.  I'll try to build a more interesting kernel
sometime this week.  ext2 with delalloc might be fun, too.  Do you know of
any simple patch or patches which might get reiserfs working on 2.5.6?</quote>
There was no reply.</p>

<p>Andi had also originally remarked in reply to Matthew's conclusion
that journalled filesystems had measurable overhead for the workload he'd
tested:</p>

<quote who="Andi Kleen">

<p>Normally (non data journaling, noatime) journaling fs shouldn't have any
overhead for database load, because database files should be preallocated
and the database should do direct IO in/out the preallocated buffers with
the FS never doing any metadata writes, except for occassional inode updates
for mtime depending on what sync mode that DB uses (hmm, I guess a nomtime or
verylazymtime or alwaysasyncmtime mount option could be helpful for that)</p>

<p>That's the theory, but doesn't seem to be the case in your test. I guess
your test is not very realistic then.</p>

</quote>

<p>Matthew replied, <quote who="Matthew Kirkwood">Or your assumptions about
DB vs filesystems are not valid in this case.</quote> He went on, <quote
who="Matthew Kirkwood">Postgres doesn't pre-allocate datafiles.  They reckon
it's not their job to implement a filesystem, and I'm inclined to agree.
They do prefer fdatasync on datafiles and (I think) O_DATASYNC for their
journal files where available, but I haven't checked that my build is doing
that.</quote> Andreas Dilger replied, <quote who="Andreas Dilger">If the I/O is
normally sync driven, you should consider testing ext3 with "data=journal".
While this seems counterintuitive because it is writing the data to disk
twice, it can often be faster in real-world "bursty" environments because
the sync I/O goes to the journal in one contiguous write, and it can then
be written to the rest of the fs asynchronously safely.  You can also set
up an external journal device so that the journal is on another disk and
avoid seeking between the journal and the rest of the filesystem.</quote> This
made sense to Matthew, and the thread ended.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Erratic System Times In Recent 2.4 Kernels On Some Hardware"
  subject="time jumps"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0203.3/0557.html"
  posts="6"
  startdate="27 Mar 2002 07:28:35 -0800"
  enddate="27 Mar 2002 10:23:17 -0800"
>
<notopic>Real-Time</notopic>

<p>Bernd Schubert reported:</p>

<quote who="Bernd Schubert">

<p>we have a computer here, that behaves very strange, from one second to
another the clock changes to about 1h in the future. In the next "real"
second the time is normal again.</p>

<p>Well, I first thought that is might be a X problem, but after running
a loop over "date", it really seems that the system clock is affected.
Then I thought it might be a conflict with the hardware clock, but after
resetting it to the system time, the problem was still there.</p>

<p>The only clock that doesn't seem to be affected is the realtime clock
(at least not when doing a loop of cat over the proc-file).</p>

<p>The problem is, that this time jumps cause the Xserver to enable its
screensaver (and several other small problems).</p>

<p>System  is: Athlon 650 on VIA board with linux-2.4.17 (unpatched)</p>

</quote>

<p>Adam Johansson confirmed, <quote who="Adam Johansson">The same thing
happened to me on an Athlon 600 on a KM133 chipset.  I ran a vanilla 2.4.18
and after upgrading to 2.4.19 the problem never occured again.</quote>
But Jim MacBaine added, <quote who="Jim MacBaine">I have expirienced those
strange screensaver activations with 2.4.19-pre2-ac4 as well.</quote></p>

<p>Elsewhere, Mark Cooke also replied to Bernd's original post, saying:</p>

<quote who="Mark Cooke">

<p>There is a hardware bug on some via 686a systems where the RTC appears
automagically change it's programmed value.</p>

<p>A patch was originally made against 2.4.2, and some version of this
appears to be applied to current kernels (I don't have a vanilla 2.4.17 to
check against).  Look in arch/i386/kernel/time.c for mention of 686a.</p>

<p>It appears to only be used if the kernel's not compiled with CONFIG_X86_TSC
though, so if you have that defined you may not see the problem at all...</p>

</quote>

<p>Bernd said he'd try this, and the thread ended.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="2.4.18 Console Corruption On Some Motherboards"
  subject="VIA text console corruption and fix."
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0203.3/0597.html"
  posts="4"
  startdate="27 Mar 2002 11:17:30 -0800"
  enddate="28 Mar 2002 01:33:21 -0800"
>
<topic>Disks: IDE</topic>

<p>Berend De Schouwer reported that in 2.4.18, <quote who="Berend De
Schouwer">When booting kernel 2.4.18, before /sbin/init is run, the text
console becomes corrupted and unreadable.  Vertical lines appear on the
screen in a multitude of colours.  The X server will still start, and run
as normal.  You can login over ssh.</quote> He posted a patch, and Steven
Walter replied, <quote who="Steven Walter">Aha, another.  You're the fourth
or fifth person with this problem.  I have a patch very similar to yours.
What my patch does is only clear bit 7, which is what was experimentally
determined to disable the Write Memory Queue.  So far it seems that only
KM133 (KT133 w/onboard S3 Savage) are afflicted.</quote> But he added,
<quote who="Steven Walter">However, the patch isn't being accepted until
an explanation from VIA is obtained (apparently the head kernel honcho's
were explicitly told to clear bit 5).  I'm working on that now.</quote>
Berend replied, <quote who="Berend De Schouwer">I've been told the same.
Clearing bit 5 is apparently necessary to prevent IDE crruption.  Asus lists
two motherboards, one with a KL133, one with a KL133A.  It looks like the
motherboards using KL133s are broken, and the KL133As work.</quote></p>

</section>

<section
  title="Changing Process Priority Via Capabilities"
  subject="Linux Kernel Patch; setpriority"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0203.3/0616.html"
  posts="7"
  startdate="27 Mar 2002 12:59:13 -0800"
  enddate="28 Mar 2002 16:39:42 -0800"
>
<topic>BSD</topic>
<topic>Capabilities</topic>
<topic>POSIX</topic>

<p>Stephen Baker posted a patch, and announced:</p>

<quote who="Stephen Baker">

<p>This patch will allow a process or thread to changes it's priority
dynamically based on it's capabilities.  In our case we wanted to use
threads with Linux.  To have true priorities we need root to use SCHED_FIFO
or SCHED_RR; in many case root access is not allowed but we still wanted
priorities.  So we started using setpriority to change a threads priority.
Now we used nice values from 19 to 0 which did not require root access.
In some cases a thread need to raise it's nice level and this would fail.
I also saw a note man renice(8) that said this bug exists.</p>

<p>So the following patch address this problem.  It allows any process
or thread to raise or lower it's nice value for it's current capability.
For example a CAP_SYS_NICE process can use 19 to -20 for it's value and a
normal user can use 19 to 0.  By capping normal user to zero then we don't
have any problems with conflicts with higher priority programs in the system
since zero is the default value.</p>

</quote>

<p>Chris Wright replied, <quote who="Chris Wright">hmm, SUS v3 seems to
disagree.  "Only a process with appropriate privileges can lower its nice
value."</quote> There was some discussion, and at one point Stephen said,
<quote who="Stephen Baker">All this is really just pigeon dancing around the
fact that Linux doesn't implement the PTHREAD_SCOPE_PROCESS which is all I
want .  I t would make Linux match Solaris and BSD model for POSIX threads.
I guess it wouldn't be POSIX if everyone implemented it the same set of
supported features.  That's why I resorted to changing the nice value in
hopes of have some say in how things get scheduled without all the superuser /
capabilities hacks.</quote> But he said he'd go back and try to find a better
solution. Bill Davidsen replied:</p>

<quote who="Bill Davidsen">

<p>I just did a "man 3 pthreads" and that capability is listed as
available... If you can boil it down to a small test program as I did,
I'll run it on Linux and Solaris and see what I see.</p>

<p>Of course Linux doesn't implement anything here, you choose the
implementation by pthreads lib and includes, the old MIT user-level one,
the so-called "Linux threads" model, or the current NGPT model in current
kernels and the library from IBM.</p>

<p>The latter work, at least for some definitions of "work," but I know
there are some differences.</p>

<p>I don't see why starting two threads at different priorities when the
program does init is enough overhead to notice, but I don't have your program
so you may need something inobvious.</p>

</quote>

<p>There was no reply.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="Using Recent Compilers With 2.2 Kernels"
  subject="Compile error in kernel 2.2.21-rc2"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0203.3/0657.html"
  posts="2"
  startdate="27 Mar 2002 16:40:24 -0800"
  enddate="27 Mar 2002 17:00:55 -0800"
>

<p>Eric Hokanson reported errors when trying to compile 2.2.21-rc2 using
gcc 2.96. Alan Cox replied, <quote who="Alan Cox">Please don't use gcc
2.96/gcc 3.0/3.1 snapshots to build 2.2 kernels. The kernel tree contains
some assumptions that dont work with the newer compilers.</quote> End of thread.</p>

</section>

<section
  title="-dj Kernels Forward-Porting 2.4 Code To 2.5; Migrating To BitKeeper"
  subject="Linux 2.5.7-dj1"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0203.3/0671.html"
  posts="8"
  startdate="27 Mar 2002 17:59:28 -0800"
  enddate="28 Mar 2002 14:56:43 -0800"
>
<topic>FS: JFS</topic>
<topic>FS: ReiserFS</topic>
<topic>Forward Port</topic>
<topic>Framebuffer</topic>
<topic>POSIX</topic>
<topic>Touchscreen</topic>
<topic>USB</topic>
<topic>Version Control</topic>

<mention>James Simmons</mention>
<mention>Dave Olien</mention>
<mention>Brian Gerst</mention>
<mention>Geert Uytterhoeven</mention>
<mention>Andre Hedrick</mention>
<mention>Greg KH</mention>
<mention>Anton Altaparmakov</mention>
<mention>Tigran Aivazian</mention>
<mention>Dave Hansen</mention>
<mention>Steven Cole</mention>
<mention>Randy Dunlap</mention>
<mention>Nathan Walp</mention>
<mention>Christoph Hellwig</mention>
<mention>Benjamin LaHaise</mention>
<mention>William Lee Irwin III</mention>
<mention>Zwane Mwaikambo</mention>

<p>Dave Jones released 2.5.7-dj1 and announced:</p>

<quote who="Dave Jones">

<p>This catches up with the bits and pieces that have happened in 2.4 over
the last few weeks, scoops up this weeks Linux-kernel bits, and throws in
various compile fixes so it hopefully all works out.  Particularly of note
in this one are Andre's ide fixes, feedback appreciated from anyone seeing
problems in 2.5 mainline.  </p>

<p>In other news, work has begun splitting this monster diff into lots of
Bitkeeper trees. Hopefully when Linus gets back, resyncing is going to be
a lot easier than it used to be.</p>

<p>As usual,..  Patch against 2.5.7 vanilla is available from: <a
href="ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/davej/patches/2.5/">ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/davej/patches/2.5/</a></p>

<p>Merged patch archive: <a
href="http://www.codemonkey.org.uk/patches/merged/">http://www.codemonkey.org.uk/patches/merged/</a></p>

<p>Check <a
href="http://www.codemonkey.org.uk/Linux-2.5.html">http://www.codemonkey.org.uk/Linux-2.5.html</a>
before reporting known bugs that are also in mainline.</p>

<p>2.5.7-dj2</p>

<p>

<ul>

<li>Merge bits of 2.4.19pre3 &amp; pre4. Dropped quite a bit, 2.5 is really starting to diverge in quite a few areas.</li>
<li>Numerous compile fixups.                            (Me)</li>
<li>Various config.help updates.                        (Steven Cole, ESR)</li>
<li>AFFS compile fix.                                   (Jarno Paananen)</li>
<li>Update bttv to use new v4l API.                     (Jarno Paananen)</li>
<li>Removal extraneous BUG() from accounting code.      (Bob Miller)</li>
<li>Fix up JFS txnmgr race.                             (Christoph Hellwig)</li>
<li>Update documentation index.                         (Rolf Eike Beer)</li>
<li>Use seq_file for /proc/partitions.                  (Randy Dunlap)</li>
<li>Fix initrd kdev_same thinko.                        (Al Viro)</li>
<li>Minor sg update.                                    (Doug Gilbert)</li>
<li>install .config with 'make install'                 (Kelly French)</li>
<li>Add yet another VAIO to the DMI APM blacklist.      (Michael
Piotrowski)</li>
<li>Detect get_block errors in block_read_full_page.    (Anton
Altaparmakov)</li>
<li>Kill off noquot.c                                   (Al Viro)</li>
<li>Special case P4/Xeon bluesmoke init.                (Jon Hourd)</li>
<li>Fix up ide-scsi documentation typo.                 (Bill Jonas)</li>
<li>Increment tcpPassiveOpens counter.                  (Dave Miller)</li>
<li>Fix up some of Linus' criticisms of SEM_UNDO        (Dave Olien)</li>
<li>ibmphp compile fix.                                 (Greg KH)</li>
<li>Fix up two possible panics in microcode driver.     (Tigran Aivazian)</li>
<li>fcntl return code POSIX compliance.                 (Christopher Yeoh)</li>
<li>Lessen debug info from ide-tape.                    (Alfredo Sanju?n)</li>
<li>Various ide fixes. pdc4030 bent into shape a little by me, please test carefully. (Andre Hedrick)</li>
<li>EasyDisk USB storage support.                       (Stanislav
Karchebny)</li>
<li>Flush cache/TLB on MCE.                             (Me)</li>
<li>Fix double free in efi partition handling.          (Takanori Kawano)</li>
<li>Correct pci_set_mwi documentation typo.             (Geert
Uytterhoeven)</li>
<li>Fix up race in indydog driver.                      (Dave Hansen)</li>
<li>3ware driver update.                                (Adam Radford)</li>
<li>Fix mmap bug with drivers that adjust vm_start.     (Benjamin LaHaise)</li>
<li>Register mad16 gameport with input subsystem.       (Michael Haardt)</li>
<li>Remove stale comment.                               (William Lee Irwin
III)</li>
<li>P4/Xeon Thermal LVT support for MCE.                (Zwane Mwaikambo)</li>
<li>Various fbdev compilation fixes.                    (James Simmons)</li>
<li>Move touchscreen drivers to their own dir.          (James Simmons)</li>
<li>Seperate reiserfs_sb_info from struct super_block   (Brian Gerst)</li>

</ul>

</p>

</quote>

<p>Nathan Walp reported good success with this releaes, but reported
compilation errors on the subsequent release, -dj2, in aic7xxx_osm.c;
Dave promised to look at it, and Bill Davidsen remarked, <quote who="Bill
Davidsen">I haven't d/l this version (and I'm generally not even trying 2.5
at the moment), but I would bet the include which defines strtok got zapped
or moved.</quote> Dave replied, <quote who="Dave Jones">Indeed, in my tree
strtok is dead, replaced with some fairly trivial code that uses strsep. This
is one of those cases that fell through the gaps, and is worthy of adding
to my 'check diff before uploading' script.</quote></p>

</section>

<section
  title="Some BIOSes Flaky With /proc/cpuinfo Settings"
  subject="CPU Model IDs(string) inconsistant on SMP AMD System (2.4.18-rc4)"
  archive="http://www.uwsg.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0203.3/0781.html"
  posts="3"
  startdate="28 Mar 2002 12:05:12 -0800"
  enddate="28 Mar 2002 15:09:04 -0800"
>
<topic>SMP</topic>

<p>Adam D Scislowicz reported that on his SMP Athlon machines, the first
CPUs all reported wrong information in /proc/cpuinfo under 2.4.18-rc4. The
model name came back as "AMD Athlon(tm) MP 1800+" and the model ID as "AMD
Athlon(tm) Processor". Maarten Ballintijn reported, <quote who="Maarten
Ballintijn">The same thing is happening on our Tyan S2460 motherboards,
running 2.4.19-pre4-ac2.  IIRC it is the BIOS that sets these strings.</quote>
And Dave Jones also targetted the BIOS, saying that the vendors were not
bothering to conform to the specs. He said, <quote who="Dave Jones">'AMD
Athlon(tm) Processor'. is the power-on default.  On working out if the
CPU is an XP or an MP (by reading the MP bit in cpu capabilities flags)
it's supposed to set the name string.  Crap BIOSen only do this for the
first CPU.  It's harmless, but I'll get around to writing a boot time fixup
sometime.</quote> End of thread.</p>

</section>

</kc>

