KDE Traffic #62 For 23 Aug 2003

Editor: Russell Miller


Table Of Contents


Greetings. Here is a (late, but not too late) KDE traffic, issue #62, to be precise. The stats will be a little low tonight because I'm beginning to remove the bug reports and spam from the mailbox. Makes things easier on me. I'm also tempted to do a bug report newsletter like kde-traffic, but without duplicating features, such as reports, to be found on bugzilla. Comments? Suggestions? And please don't tell me where I can shove it, I have already had quite an education on that subject from the infamous Not April Fools episode.

I'm also working on an XML/XSLT parsing mechanism that, when finished, should help me to create higher quality KDE traffic newsletters more quickly. I already have the mbox->XML component done, and I intend to finish the other components over the next few days. I wanted to finish it tonight, but alas, I have other things that need to get done. So look for it, I guess.

Expect another kde traffic in a few days. Also, greets to our new contributors!

Oh, and of course, here is the requisite button. And might I add, I redesigned the resume page - I apologize for the haphazardness of last time. That's definitely NOT a way to show off one's talents.


Mailing List Stats For This Week

We looked at 459 posts in 2072K.

There were 167 different contributors. 82 posted more than once. 84 posted last week too.

The top posters of the week were:

1. [RFC long] Opening files from different applications (gideon) - generic MIME configuration problem?

23 Jul 2003 - 11 Aug 2003 (14 posts) Archive Link: "[RFC long] Opening files from different applications (gideon) - generic MIME configuration problem?"

Summary By Russell Miller

People: Roger LarssonWaldo Bastian

Roger Larsson began this thread with a very short missive - about as short as the pope is protestant.

Have you ever been hit by a MIME type related bug? I have, they are among the most common bugs that I run into when using KDE. And worse - they may lead to really strange problems... Especially when applications (konqueror, gideon) makes silent overrides! This is mostly to trigger some thinking in large - I will file additional bug reports / wishes for the specific issues later.

After which he proceeded to outline a great many perceived problems with mime type configuration and the overriding procedures in KDE, along with offering some suggestions, such as grouping selected defaults, specify ro/rw viewer, no hardcoded overrides, mime types for plug-in based, apps, and a quick change editor. Waldo Bastian replied that he thinks a lot of the test/plain related issues can be solved with the new isAlso property of mimetypes. Roger Larsson responded that this doesn't solve the problem in all cases, and that he believes that quanta is overriding his preferences. Waldo Bastian fixed it and suggested that Roger update kdelibs/kio.

2. ClientInterface (next try)

26 Jul 2003 - 10 Aug 2003 (10 posts) Archive Link: "ClientInterface (next try)"

Summary By Russell Miller

People: Andreas GunglDon Sanders

Andreas Gungl inaugurated this incarnation of the ongoing thread about splitting kmail (I'll miss it when it's gone, it's job security!);

as discussed long enough on this list, this time I tried to use an approach to separate only existing core and UI code. Those who reviewed my last patch will have it easy to compare to this one. I used kmsender as an example again. And again two issues are open (the interactive messagebox and the password dialog). Both require significantly more work, so before I continue I better ask about your opinions now. Special hotspots are:

- - Is my choosen way of handling the strings for the UI okay?
- - I used direct calls to the KMClientInterface's methods. I believe that this is appropriate for the moment. If necessary we can switch to signals/slots later.
- - I tried to limit the classes used in the KMClientInterface's methods parameters to keep dependencies low.

Any comments, hints and whatever are welcome as everytime.

Cornelius Schumaker had a couple of minor nitpicks, which Andreas fixed. Andreas had more to say in response to this:

Okay, some improvements (although I didn't solve the two big issues with the dialogs yet):

I'm not sure who is interested in the details of this change. Nevertheless I want to give a chance to object before I commit my work to CVS (when I have finished kmsender - but feedback is welcome already now).

Don Sanders said he has been running with the patch applied and notices no major problems, and that the patches look ok with him, with some little things for feedback (mostly involving code cleanup issues), which Andreas responded to. Carsten Burghard responded that he moved a setComplete call that Andreas wasn't sure of to the composer. Ingo also had some feedback, which was addressed by Andreas.

Concensus seems to be that the patch seems mostly ok as written, with the caveat that there are a few small items that need to be addressed before it can be committed.

3. KPrefs status

31 Jul 2003 - 9 Aug 2003 (14 posts) Archive Link: "KPrefs status"

Summary By Russell Miller

People: Cornelius SchumacherChristopher MolnarOswald Buddenhagen

Cornelius Schumacher, while not Maching Schus, said:

A couple of days ago I asked for opinions about moving KPrefs from libkdepim to kdelibs. Considering the feedback I did some work on this and some related classes. The current status is:

All this is still work in progress, in particular the autogeneration of preferences dialogs, and it will certainly need some additions to the KPrefs API to support all what we need. I will be on holiday for the next two weeks, so I would like to postpone the move to kdelibs for a while, but I'm quite confident that this will become a solution useful for many applications.

Oswald Buddenhagen responded that he doesn't like the fact that it uses an XML description, and wanted to know what would be duplicated between kprefs and kconfig. Cornelius responded that the XML description is not a language, and that while he agrees there should be no duplicated code, he doesn't see, and threw the ball back into Oswald's court. Oswald responded that there is presently no code duplication as the duplicated code hasn't been written yet.

Waldo responded, however, that it actually is the new kconfig stuff, and only that the syntax might need minor tweaking, to which Oswald disagreed. Waldo agreed that it's not what was originally proposed, but asserted that it's quite a bit better. Oswald seemed to pretty much agree with this. Zack also said he might start working on kconfedit in order to see if he could get it to work with this config format.

There was also an interesting sub thread on whether kde-core-devel had gone quiet, to which we found out:

Yep.... My "Accu-Window" shows cloudy, my driveway is wet (meaning it rained) - around 85 degrees F, humidity close to 70%. What a nice day to be inside in air conditioning working on KDE (or in my case server maint.) :-)

This edition of KDE traffic weather has been brought to you by #kde-devel. Don't leave home... well, just don't leave home. And by aptng, who wishes to remind you that Larting is Good.

4. Lower case URLs

1 Aug 2003 - 10 Aug 2003 (20 posts) Archive Link: "Lower case URLs"

Summary By Russell Miller

People: Petter E. StokkeThiago Macieira

Petter E. Stokke began this thread with:

I've got a few .protocol files defining URL protocols for KIO, and whenever I hit a link for one of them in Konqueror, the links passed to the defined program are converted to lower case. This didn't happen in KDE 3.1.2 (I'm using kdelibs from CVS of a few days ago).

In case I didn't manage to explain it properly, here's an example.

Suppose I have a program "foobar" which handles links for the "foo" protocol, and a file called $KDEDIR/share/services/foo.protocol like this:

exec=foobar "%u"

If I open Konqueror and hit the link "foo://Wombat/Flarp", when foobar is run what it receives is this: "foo://wombat/flarp".

Is it only me, or is something really wrong here?

Thiago Macieira responded that yes, it was normal, and no, he would not revert the behavior as it is RFC compliant. Petter suggested a patch to add a new config directive to the .profocol files specifying a protocol that uses non-standard URLs. Thiago opened a bug report (id 62425) to keep track of this issue and asked Petter to attach the patch when he comes up with one.

5. Minor cleanup of debug strings.

4 Aug 2003 - 6 Aug 2003 (3 posts) Archive Link: "Minor cleanup of debug strings."

Summary By Russell Miller

People: Don Sanders

Brad Hards stated that he was cleaning up some of the debug strings, especially the ones that do not have a "\n" on the end, and provided a patch. Don Sanders and Ingo "Mr. 246" Klöcker responded that they like the patch, though Ingo is intending to remove some of those strings eventually.

6. Quick tab access on konqueror

5 Aug 2003 - 7 Aug 2003 (23 posts) Archive Link: "Quick tab access on konqueror"

Summary By Russell Miller

People: Jos van den Oever

Jos van den Oever said:

When browsing with konqueror, I really love using tabs. Something I'm missing though is a shortcut to access a tab quickly. In GNOME, mozilla and windows, it's possible to quickly switch tab with <ctrl><pgup> and <ctrl><pgdownxi>>. This seems to work for all tab widgets.

In konsole it is possible to switch tab with <ctrl><left> and <ctrl><right>. <ctrl><pgup> and <ctrl><pgdown> are used for scrolling up and down whole pages at a time. gnome-terminal does not seem to have a shortcut for this.

In Qt and KDE, tab often have an accelerator (alt+letter) for accessing a tab. For consistent quick access to tabs in konqueror, this approach could be followed. The easiest way of adding accelerators to tabs would be to number the tabs and access them with alt-1 etc. The tab number should be preceded with the tab number, which costs a bit of space on the tab bar.

What do you think of this approach?

There was quite a bit of back and forth on this, but no resolution, as none of the core developers (that I am aware of) appeared to respond. Suggestions on some workarounds appeared to be introduced.

7. Re: RMB - once again

5 Aug 2003 - 12 Aug 2003 (23 posts) Archive Link: "Re: RMB - once again"

Summary By Russell Miller

Henrique Pinto forwarded on a bunch of suggestions to kfm-devel from the kde-usability list, regarding the context menus in konqueror. A bit of discussion on what to do with the edit file type menu (the suggestion was to put it in the Open With.. dialog, which appears to have been accepted).

There were several pages of suggestions, the user is directed to the thread if he/she/it wishes to learn more.

8. New pim.kde.org

5 Aug 2003 - 7 Aug 2003 (9 posts) Archive Link: "new pim.kde.org up and running"

Summary By Russell Miller

People: Klaus Staerk

Klaus Staerk wrote to say that the new pim.kde.org is up, and invited comment. Everyone appeared to like it, even the guy who wrote his response in german. (which I will be nice here and translate it to english, with a little help from babelfish and bugix on irc - my german is workable but pedestrian):

"First of all thank you for your work on the website. It is very important. Can you revise: remove "Kroupware", it should probably be named kolab and refer also to kolab.kde.org. Kroupware is how you can read the message, and meanwhile finished and documented project and on kroupware.org."

9. Groupware stuff.

6 Aug 2003 - 8 Aug 2003 (3 posts) Archive Link: "Please redirect to groupware/glow mailing list"

Summary By Russell Miller

CPH forwarded a message from someone at Sun (all hail Sun, ommmmmmmmmmmm), stating that they would like to help open source projects that would like to help in creating standards. You're directed to the message for more information, essentially open source projects were invited to set up a project unter the groupware umbrella, with sun's (OO) help.

10. Proposal to change the way threading settings work

7 Aug 2003 - 10 Aug 2003 (12 posts) Archive Link: "Proposal to change the way threading settings work"

Summary By Russell Miller

People: Aaron SeigoAndreas GunglDon SandersIngo KlöckerTill Adam

Till Adam stated that he feels there is a problem with threading in kmail. Namely that the per folder setting is an override of the global setting. He suggested changing it so that the global option just turns the threading options in the folder menus off, or that you can disable them per-folder if it's turned on. Same for html. He also proposed moving the global threading option out of geometry and into behavior.

Ingo Klöcker responded that hiding options is a bad thing, and they should be disabled instead, that the current solution is preferable in hos opinion, and that the suggestion of moving the option out of geometry is a good idea, and that there are more options that should be moved somewhere else.

Andreas Gungl (of Very Long Thread fame) suggested a tristate option - default, off and on (the last two being locally overridden no matter what is set globally). Don Sanders liked the idea but wondered how it would work. Andres responded suggesting combo boxes in the folder properties.

It appears the tri-state suggestion was almost universally liked, and Aaron Seigo, who stated, "Yes, I had a brain fart" (I'm going for the best out of context quote), also stated that he would try to get to syncing the folder menu and the Folder context menus.

11. Striking out finished todos

9 Aug 2003 - 17 Aug 2003 (14 posts) Archive Link: "[PATCH]: Striking out finished todos (wish #62340)"

Summary By Russell Miller

People: Cornelius SchumacherReinhold KainhoferAaron SeigoDaniel Molkentin

Reinhold Kainhofer supplied a nice patch to strike out finished todos in the todo view, and asked the list if it was to obtrusive, and how to remedy that if it is. Daniel Molkentin said that he also submitted such a patch a while ago, and was convinced it was a bad idea. Reinhold came back with a few other ideas, and Allen D. Winter suggested giving the user the choice of which to use. He also asked to make the bar graph an option while they were on the subject.

Tin Jansen replied that an option is no excuse for bad usability in the default setting. Allen D. Winter responded that he didn't see that there was a problem, though in the context it's not obvious what he's referring to.

Aaron Seigo suggested just making the strikeout a non black color, and Cornelius Schumacher asked for a patch. He also asked, in another mail, for a filter to hide todos which were completed more than a settable time ago. No response to that requests.

12. recent apps in KDE menu confusing for users

10 Aug 2003 - 17 Aug 2003 (13 posts) Archive Link: "recent apps in KDE menu confusing for users"

Summary By Russell Miller

People: Waldo BastianJohn Firebaugh

Waldo Bastian started this thread by taking the Linux Usability Test Report to heart and tried to address one of the problems by changing the "recently used" apps section in the KDE menu. He also provided a screenshot for the impatient, but you can also get it from CVS. John Firebaugh suggested a small change, and independently, Robert Williams suggested the same change, to which Karl Heinz Zimmer states that no, both are needed.

But Karl-Heinz was very happy with what Waldo did. Thomas Schwarzgruber supplied a patch to turn the titles off, which was politely rejected.

13. Porting KHTML to other platforms

10 Aug 2003 - 19 Aug 2003 (6 posts) Archive Link: "Porting KHTML to other platforms"

Summary By Russell Miller

People: Henrik Mikael KristensenDirk Mueller

Henrik Mikael Kristensen said:

I'm the project manager of a small open source webbrowser for the Amiga platform called 'AWeb', and we would very much like to port KHTML as a general purpose HTML-engine for AmigaOS, MorphOS and AROS.

The current state of Amiga-based HTML-engines is embarrassing, with no CSS capability, HTML4.0 capability and poor javascripting. We've seen Safari for MacOSX and other very small platforms using KHTML, and are therefore inspired to port KHTML to get a modern HTML-engine to the AmigaOS and its clones.

We'd like to know who the best of the KHTML developers is to approach, regarding techical support for this and how we are supposed to communicate.

You can see our site at http://aweb.sunsite.dk

Dirk Mueller thanked him for the effort, and said to contact him if he needed help. Henrik replied back with a ltitle better idea of what he wanted to accomplish. The response is that KJS would probably be easy to port, but KHTML wouldn't be much fun.

14. Using gconf2?

12 Aug 2003 - 13 Aug 2003 (33 posts) Archive Link: "GConf2"

Summary By Russell Miller

People: Thiago MacieiraDominique DevrieseStephan KulowGeorge Staikos

David Findlay started out by asking if the KDE developers have any plans to use gconf2, and whether there are any compelling reasons why not.

Michael Pyne answered no, and yes, that there is already something similar to gconf2, and KDE is using DCOP rather than ORBit. George Staikos agreed. Dave Findlay expanded on his question by commenting that the config information is presently stored in a whole bunch of textfiles int he $HOME/.kde directory and maybe a registry system would be better.

To which everyone and their brother disagreed quite vehemently.

Dominique Devriese challenged David to come up with some very compelling reasons to switch, to which David conceded that gconf2 is probably not right for kde, but provided some other reasons, such as no configuration history, no way to rollback changes, working in kiosk mode, etc. Stephan Kulow responded that the rollback arguments were nice, but could be done in the current architecture, and that the other arguments were essentially moot.

The discussion then began to focus on the rollback stuff, which appears to be what David really wanted in the first place. Thiago Macieira put it quite nicely:

Ok, so it all comes down to this:

1) KConfig works quite nicely. No need to change it.

2) Configuration browsers (KConfEdit) is already being worked on, with the current KConfig.

3) history and rollback would be nice. All that you have to do is implement a new backend for KConfig.

So, as someone has already suggested, it's up to you to start coding this new backend.

15. New KDE-Solaris/Sparc maintainer


Summary By Russell Miller

People: Eva Brucherseifer

Eva Brucherseifer emailed me the following news item which I am glad to include. Hint: If you send me valid xml you get to be in the Authors part :D

Anyway, here it is:

Yesterday Stefan Teleman stepped up as maintainer of the KDE-Solaris/Sparc packages. He is quite known on the kde-solaris mailininglist already since he is providing 32-bit packages for KDE on Solaris/Sparc since quite some time. Also he's working on a port of KDE to SUN's 64-bit compiler Forte. There was very positive feedback about his offer.

You'll find the discussion here: http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-solaris&m=105944874212538&w=2 (http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-solaris&m=105944874212538&w=2) and all following messages (3 threads atm).

Thanks for the tip, Eva!

16. KOffice-devel roundup


Summary By Russell Miller

People: Ariya Hidayat

Ariya Hidayat sent me this list of interesting things to look at. Since it was not in valid XML I was not able to easily include it into this issue, and there were already a higher than average number of news items. So I will present them all as one chunk, and you can pursue them further at your own leisure. Thank you for your effort, Ariya. As this is a news contribution, the submission is slightly edited for content.

Subject: wv2-0.1.8 from Werner

see http://lists.kde.org/?l=koffice-devel&m=105966276822760&w=2 (http://lists.kde.org/?l=koffice-devel&m=105966276822760&w=2) and http://lists.kde.org/?l=koffice-devel&m=106028510306947&w=2 (http://lists.kde.org/?l=koffice-devel&m=106028510306947&w=2)

This thread covers the fact that KWord 1.3 will support importing Word 6 and Word 95 documents better than before.

Subject: Feature freeze for Beta 3

see http://lists.kde.org/?l=koffice-devel&m=106018084320689&w=2 (http://lists.kde.org/?l=koffice-devel&m=106018084320689&w=2)

bug hunting and code review sessions starts (Clarence starts with http://lists.kde.org/?l=koffice-devel&m=106024997728656&w=2 (http://lists.kde.org/?l=koffice-devel&m=106024997728656&w=2) and I with http://lists.kde.org/?l=koffice-devel&m=106052281304826&w=2 (http://lists.kde.org/?l=koffice-devel&m=106052281304826&w=2) and http://lists.kde.org/?l=koffice-devel&m=106052305904984&w=2 (http://lists.kde.org/?l=koffice-devel&m=106052305904984&w=2) )

Subject: XEmacs for KOffice developers http://lists.kde.org/?l=koffice-devel&m=106009924513550&w=2 (http://lists.kde.org/?l=koffice-devel&m=106009924513550&w=2) Funny, slighly off-topic thread about the use of Emacs and XEmacs for source-code editing.







Sharon And Joy

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