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GNUe Traffic #51 For 19 Oct 2002

By Peter Sullivan

Text ed1t0r warz redux - "emacs is my best friend!" - "then you should get out more!"

Table Of Contents


This Cousin covers the three main mailing lists for the GNU Enterprise project, plus the the #gnuenterprise IRC channel.


1. Fixes to 0.4.0 releases setup.exe on Microsoft Windows
9 Oct 2002 - 12 Oct 2002 (4 posts) Archive Link: "[Gnue-dev] repackaged GNUe-Tools-0.4.0a-setup.exe"
Topics: Designer, Common
People: Bajusz TamásRobert JenkinsTamásBajusz

Further to Issue #50, Section #10  (4 Oct 2002: Fixes to 0.4.0 releases setup.exe on Microsoft Windows) , Bajusz Tamás reported "A repackaged GNUe-Tools-0.4.0a-setup.exe available at" Meanwhile, Robert Jenkins reported problems with the previous version - "Designer does not run - when I try to start it, I get several seconds of intense disk activity, but nothing more. No sign of any stuck processes. Forms appears to run OK." Later, he tried to download Bajusz's revised version, "but so far all I cannot even get the page, I just get 110 errors." Bajusz explained that there was no problem with the underlying GNUe Designer code, but there had been a "packaging mistake" . He had repackaged it, and "added some additional db drivers" , including "firebird, sapdb, appserver" .

Earlier, Robert also asked "Any chance of converting the config files to Windows format for the Windows version? It's a real pain manually converting them with notepad.." He added "One of the comments by the GNUe people was that they need users! The majority of desktop systems are still Windows based (like the company I'm hoping to use GNUe with). Many Windows users will simply give up on a program that does not work first time, or needs things doing that they don't understand, like re-formatting files. Once a program is installed and running, most people will put some effort into learning how to operate it, but not if it won't install!" Bajusz agreed, but said "The core gnue people are not windows fans, they mainly use debian-linux. I myself try to help testing on win32 and making patches if i can" as a volunteer.


2. Installing GNUe on Mandrake GNU/Linux
10 Oct 2002 (2 posts) Archive Link: "Installation"
People: Vincent JagotChristophe Combelles

Vincent Jagot asked "Is there a documentation in the Net to install Gnue with Mandrake 8.2 ou Mandrake 9.0 ? ?" Christophe Combelles said "I was able to start the designer on my Mandrake 9.0 by doing the following :

(I had to do it twice because the first time it didn't find forms.GFConfig)" .


3. Javascript Forms Client
9 Oct 2002 Archive Link: "[IRC] 10 Oct 2002"
Topics: Forms
People: Jan IschbeckJan Ischebeck

Further to Issue #50, Section #12  (4 Oct 2002: Web-based Forms clients for Financials) , Jan Ischebeck (siesel) said that he had a "full working forms client" in Javascript - "(just for simple forms at the moment) - (i.e. working parser+ browsing,editing, deleting data in appserver over xmlrpc)" .


4. Running CVS version of GNUe on Windows and DOS
9 Oct 2002 Archive Link: "[IRC] 10 Oct 2002"
People: Jason CaterBajusz TamásArturas KriukovasTamásBajusz

Arturas Kriukovas (Arturas) asked for some help in understanding a shell script that was called by GNUe's python script. Jason Cater (jcater) explained that $@ was "a bash construct - basically that's passing all command line parameters unchanged to the python binary" . Arturas said he was trying to make this work under Microsoft Windows, as referred to in Issue #45, Section #3  (23 Aug 2002: Setting up CVS versions of GNUe on Microsoft Windows) . Bajusz Tamás (btami) asked "is there any chance to run GNUe on a good old DOS box ?" Jason said this "depends on whether python2.1 and the database driver will compile but it's certainly possible" although "not something I'm going to chase after" .


5. curses (text-only) client for GNUe Forms
9 Oct 2002 Archive Link: "[IRC] 10 Oct 2002"
People: Jason CaterJames Thompson

Jason Cater (jcater) posted a screenshot of a curses (text only) login screen - "cursing == GNUe's curses widget toolset" . James Thompson (jamest) explained "it's the highly modified code originally based upon nstti" . Jason explained it had been put into GNUe Common "because it's common to our code" - theoretically, other GNUe tools such as Reports or Navigator might want to use it. James explained "there isn't a curses library out there at the moment that does what we require or that is maintained - we had this on seperate cvs server out of main code base" - "but that made it harder to get fixes into it" , so this had now been merged with the main GNUe CVS.


6. Workflow and Knowledge Management for GNUe
9 Oct 2002 Archive Link: "[IRC] 10 Oct 2002"
People: Keith JagrsDerek NeighborsDan BetheAndrew MitchellDaniel Baumann

Keith Jagrs (KeithJagrs) asked "are there plans for gnue to serve workflow?" Derek Neighbors (derek) said "things not much listed but we plan on - workflow, groupware, knowledge management" . Keith asked "what about using openflow - or another ongoing project" ? Derek said "we are ALL FOR REUSING or merging with things - example we are working with axisgw and phpgw on groupware stuff - we just dont want to spread too thin and why we havent jumped into these areas yet - hoping a project will show up" . He was "examing gnukose for FSF currently for knowledge management - hopefully it will be something that can become part of GNU as well as GNUE" .

Dan Bethe (dtm) said that "the university lex attended (lex from axisgw team) developed a knowledge management system that they want us to take up, so they can get support off their backs" . Derek asked "will university make theirs gpl? if so i can evaluate as well" . Dan said "its web site mentions public domain. we'll see... it talks about the Library at Alexandria and the Library of Congress, so you know it's leet - it's called Phronesis, Greek for "wisdom"" . Andrew Mitchell (ajmitch) said that "afaik 'sophia' is greek for wisdom ;)" Daniel Baumann (chillywilly) agreed - "philosophy is the love of wisdom" - "philo == love, sophia == wisdom...there that's the ticket ;)" Dan asked "must a GNU project be under GPL/LGPL? what about GPL compatible according to" Derek said "no a gnu project need not be under the GPL or LGPL but generally its HIGHLY preferred" .

Keith looked at gnukose, and asked "have you discarded zope or plone, etc?" Derek said "zope is not workflow" . Keith agreed, "but is CMS - and on top of it is plone and openflow" .


7. Non-free Linux accounting package at Linux Expo UK
10 Oct 2002 Archive Link: "[IRC] 11 Oct 2002"
Topics: Financials (Accounting)
People: Peter Sullivan

Peter Sullivan (psu) said that Linux Expo UK had been "smaller than I expected (40-50 stands) but still interesting - good mix of a) the big boys (Sun, Oracle, IBM) come to explain their linux strategy - b) small to medium size IT firms based around GNU/Linux - c) the "dot-orgs"" . There had not been a GNUe stand, but "maybe next" year. "also seen at linux expo : If you were trying to design something to be the anti-GNUe, this would be it - a) non-free - b) Java - c) postgres only" - "guess we'll have to keep working on acclite, then ;-)"


8. Native support for other User Interface drivers in Forms
10 Oct 2002 Archive Link: "[IRC] 11 Oct 2002"
Topics: Forms
People: Jason Cater

It was asked whether GNUe Forms could now use GTK2 natively, rather than having to use wxGTK and wxPython. Jason Cater (jcater) said "we had a gtk2 driver given to us that has been put into cvs (it is native). I'm honestly not sure how feature complete it is compared to the wxgtk driver but I think it's pretty far along - but I haven't had the opportunity to test it, so I can't say whether "far along" means "usable" or not. We almost have a curses version too - but we do consider the "wx" to be the "reference" implementation right now - simply because it gave us the most bang for the buck. In the near future, we'd like to see a native QT version and a native Win32 version" .


9. Printer filters for Reports
10 Oct 2002 Archive Link: "[IRC] 11 Oct 2002"
Topics: Reports
People: Jason CaterJames Thompson

It was asked how well Reports worked with dot matrix printers. Jason Cater (jcater) said "the reports package is not nearly far along as the forms package - it's only at 0.0.2 - so it isn't spitting out reports for production use yet" . But his intention was that it should be able to "talk to the printer natively i.e., send actual text - not pictures of the pages" . He noted that many Windows-based report programs "use truetype fonts, etc, then render graphics to send to the printers - that has its place of course - and you could do that if you wanted - but that's just doing injustice to dot-matrix printers :)" . James Thompson (jamest) said "i would think it'd be as hard on the printer as you'd like - as you could have your own output filter - what little I've gotten into it i would think you could do dump text w/o too much issue" . He thought that "reports is pretty cool - thanks to jcater's mad coding skills he hacked a fax spammer filter up for me - so we could send reports to various schools. 1 year ago this required a student worker to hand fax 500 reports - i can't believe the poor s.o.b. didn't go mental on us :)" .


10. Using Forms on Microsoft Windows with Application Server
10 Oct 2002 Archive Link: "[IRC] 11 Oct 2002"
Topics: Forms, Common, Application Server
People: Matt RiceJan Ischebeck

Matt Rice (ratmice) reported problems "i have appserver running on a linux box, trying to use it with windows forms seems to hang the windows forms client... has something to do with the connections.conf" . Changing the Forms definition to talk directly to the database worked. He was using the XML-RPC adaptor. Jan Ischebeck (siesel) said "the xmlrpc client should work on windows, although the pw_xmlrpc one is possibly a bit more stable" . He asked whether the form was hanging on start-up, or when it contacted the Application Server - "You could see that from the appservers output (gacvs/gnue-appserver -Z)" . Matt said "well, the gnue-forms executable launches and then exits - i don't even get the auth form" . Jan said "that seems to be a problem with the installation of xmlrpc on windows. Did you use the installer version or the zip files? Possibly xmlrpc isn't included in the installer version" .


11. GNUe Rivals
11 Oct 2002 Archive Link: "[IRC] 12 Oct 2002"
Topics: Forms, Reports, Designer, Application Server, DCL, Financials (Accounting)
People: Keith JagrsDerek Neighbors

Keith Jagrs (KeithJagrs) asked "what are the current both propietrary and GPL apps that GNUe aims to rival?" Derek Neighbors (derek) said that, for the GNUe Tools, "currently forms is almost feature complete to Oracle SQL*Forms product" and it "can replace Access (for applications *not query building*). Reporter has no equals that i can tell (reportlabs (free software) might be the closest) - but even BIG vendors like crystal reports and business objects dont really have a 'server' with caching and transformation like we do. Designer is similar to filemaker pro, delphi, powerbuilder or visual basic (only specific for business applications). App server would be similar to any app server on the market only with additional features" specifically geared to writing business/enterprise applications. On the Packages, "dcl is similar to MANY free software applications like request tracker and such - as similar to commercial applications like support magic or the likes. acclite would be similar to netledger, sql*ledger etc. The backend stuff is like nothing comparable in free software world that i know of and only the BIG end has it in the proprietary end - by backend i mean shipping automation, warehouse management, order management etc etc etc" . Keith said "So you have a well defined roadmap" . Derek disagreed, saying that "a well defined roadmap" was "next on the list - after the 0.4.0 release" . He felt that "having in head and having official roadmap are two different things - most of the core team has an idea of what the road map is - just some finer points arent ironed out and none of it is official down digitally for others to review" .


12. Debian GNU/Linux packages for GNUe
14 Oct 2002 Archive Link: "[IRC] 15 Oct 2002"
Topics: Common
People: Zack BrownJason Cater

Further to Issue #50, Section #9  (4 Oct 2002: Debian packages for GNUe) Zack Brown (zbrown) reported problems with the Debian GNU/Linux packages for GNUe - "dselect doesn't seem to recognize the 0.4 gnue packages" . "However, 'apt-get install' appears to have worked." "also, the dependency on mxDateTime doesn't seem to be specified in the debs" . Jason Cater (jcater) confirmed that Zack was using the latest versions, saying "I noticed gnue-common_0.4.0-1 didn't have mxdatetime as a dependency - but I swore I added that for gnue-common_0.4.0-2" - "Depends: python2.1 (>= 2.1.3-1), python2.1-egenix-mxdatetime (>= 2.0.3-1)" .

Zack asked "Is there a really basic intro to the concepts" of using enterprise-style tools? Jason said "we are short on docs - especially non-technical introductions" . Zack reported a broken link to the documentation page - "it should be I think."


13. Using McMillan to package Designer for Microsoft Windows
14 Oct 2002 - 15 Oct 2002 Archive Link: "[IRC] 15 Oct 2002"
Topics: Designer
People: Bajusz TamásJason CaterPeter SullivanTamásBajusz

Bajusz Tamás (btami) said he had "made a workaround for McMillan packaging in designer - please tell me if you don't like my solution" . Jason Cater (jcater) said "if it works, I like it - /me spent the better part of a week trying to get it to play nicely and obviously didn't succeed :(" . Bajusz said "it works, but maybe it is too tortuous :) - especially" . Jason was impressed - "I could not get McMillan to recognize my hook-* files - that's why I ended up doing the trick" . Bajusz said "the trickiest part was finding keyword module needed in hiddenimports for" .

The next day, Peter Sullivan (psu) noted that "btami's web page with the new WIndows .exes seems to be unreachable for me" . Several other people confirmed this. Peter asked Bajusz to e-mail it to him so he could put it on the main web site.


14. DCL and GNUe Forms
14 Oct 2002 Archive Link: "[IRC] 15 Oct 2002"
Topics: DCL, Forms
People: Keith JagrsJason CaterCharles Rouzer

Keith Jagrs (Keith_jgrs) asked "are there plans to rewrite Double Choco Latte in Python?" Jason Cater (jcater) said "there are plans to implement GNUe Forms screens - I'm not sure it's fair to call that rewriting in Python though" . "actually, I *think* there may be some GNUe Forms screens in DCL's CVS" already as of time of writing "but don't hold me to that" . Keith asked "So the DCL "engine" would stay as it is, but the UI will be ported to GNUe Forms?" Jason said "I don't think there's much of an "engine" - it is a UI with a database backend - well - I guess it depends on your perspective :)" - "in any case, the GNUe Forms version would not be dependent on the PHP version - nor vice versa - although they should be able to use the same database tables" . Charles Rouzer (Mr_You) clarified "its a sharing of code or design specs."


15. Status of GNUe Reports
14 Oct 2002 Archive Link: "[IRC] 15 Oct 2002"
Topics: Reports
People: Nick RusnovJason CaterCharles Rouzer

Nick Rusnov (nickr) asked "whats the current status of reports?" Jason Cater said "Mailmerge kicks ass - GNUe-specific markup tags not yet finalized" . Nick said "mostly I'm wondering if there is a standalone tool I can shove data into and have it come out nice printed. :)" - he was "already gathering the requisit data as defined by a tempalte, I just don't have any way to format it into a nice report" . Charles Rouzer (Mr_You) "likes awk ;-)" . Nick said he needed something "tabular with page headings and footings" . Jason said "a2ps or enscript has customizable headers/footers" . Nick said this was "not very good for windows with a nice preview window and such via the wx printing stuff. :)" Jason said "ah, if that's what your looking for, then gnue-reports certainly isn't at that point - it can do some spiffy stuff, but via Unix command prompt and without print preview" . Nick said "It'd be nice if someone made a tool that takes a 'ready to print' xml file and handles the device and printing preview stuffa. So anyway. Good thing wxPython has a 'table printer' object."


16. Standards for transaction monitors and distributed transactions
14 Oct 2002 Archive Link: "[IRC] 15 Oct 2002"
Topics: Application Server
People: Yurii RashkovskiiDaniel Baumann

Yurii Rashkovskii (Yurik) asked "does anyone knows where OpenGroup specifications could be downloaded for free?" Daniel Baumann (chillywilly) said "they can't - you have to pay" . Yurii was particularly interested in the transactions XA specification, as "The only TP monitor that supports Berkeley DB (as I understand) is BEA Tuxedo, which isn't free :-(" .

Daniel asked "what's a transaction monitor supposed to do anyway? they mention XA/XA+ in the ODMG" (Object Data Modelling Group) "book, but of course they punt on the matter" . Yurii said it managed "distributed transactions (between database environemnts)" . He was not keen on writing a transaction monitor himself, especially without access to the relevant standards - trying to understand the standards from other people's code implementing it was not ideal!

Daniel noted that the ODMG book did not define an interface for distributed transactions - "vendors are not required to support distributed transactions, but if they do they must be XA-compliant" . Yurii said he would "try to find something" that "is compatible with OG XA" - preferably not CORBA-based, as "it will be a bloat piece of software. Berkeley DB just provides C callbacks that should be used from the shared library." Daniel suggested "why not check out OMG Object Transaction Service? you should be able to get that for free" and the "ODMG ppl claim OG XA/AX+ == OMG Object Transaction Service - it's the OMG's XA implementation from what I gather" . Yurii "got OMG spec - seems that it will help a lot" .


17. Free accounting software for small businesses
15 Oct 2002 Archive Link: "[IRC] 16 Oct 2002"
Topics: Financials (Accounting)
People: Nicholas LeeAndrew MitchellDan Bethe

Nicholas Lee (esands) asked why "you guys prefer nola over sql-ledger" ? Andrew Mitchell (ajmitch) said he had heard that "sql-ledger is apparantly ugly ugly ugly code" , but Nicholas felt "Nola is no better." "sql-ledger seems to have a more active community and better business features. I also trying not to break down and buy a copy of MYOB" (Mind Your Own Books, a proprietary accounting package for small businesses) "for a couple companies I need to start books for and do last years accounts." Andrew said he needed "to get FTBA design off the ground next month - will require some input, if you want to help out :)" They had already done "just a couple of test forms for the GNUe implementation - some basic php/python code for an early, ugly, simple version" . He was "guessing it's the sort of software that would be appreciated by small companies around" New Zealand. Nicholas said "I think in NZ the core issue is" government sales tax functionality. "For most business is the biggest task every two months for invoice basis. For payment basis its even more complicated. Getting candy like "PO customer ship-tos" that auto generate to vendor invoice and customer invoices on receipt of delivery information from a supplier is also something nice. ;)"

Dan Bethe (dtm) said "if ya gotta buy something, try mybooks from - you can export or interconnect your data later - assuming this nola stuff is not good for ya" . Nicholas said "I looked at a appgen demo but didn't like it that much. Not sure how well I could get it to work in NZ as well." He wondered why Andrew was "creating a new project rather than working on top of acclite?" Andrew felt "acclite seems to do a bit too much for a small business" . Nicholas agreed it could be confusing. "However if you design your UI over the top to hide the 'unneeded' features, you get the later bonus of tracking acclites development and being able to upgrade to a 'large' application easier." Andrew agreed, "but currently acclite is mostly php-only - not the best thing to try & put forms onto for standalone apps - since FTBA will need to run on mostly windows desktops, without a webserver to run the php" . Nicholas said "from my understanding they are working towards form's version of acclite." Andrew noted "but that requires taking the php code & turning it into something forms-accessible :) - which is a rather large task" . Nicholas said "actally I think that requires taking the sql scheme turning it into something useful. Considering those works it might be easier to start from square one. ;)" Andrew felt "acclite development seems to have stalled a little, unless lots hasn't been committed?"

Nicholas said "I think the main thing about accounting systems (from the pov of an IT-inclined guy who does business accounting) is that the core is important. I'm not worried about document manager and publics notices on login if I can't generate invoices and statements." Andrew noted "accounting systems only recently started migrating off DOS recently for small business stuff :)" Dan agreed - "and a lot of their guts still use the DOS or win16 stuff" .


18. GNUe as a web-based groupware platform
15 Oct 2002 Archive Link: "[IRC] 16 Oct 2002"
Topics: Navigator, Forms, Application Server
People: Andrew MitchellDan BetheNicholas LeeDan Kuykendall

Dan Bethe (dtm) pointed to a wiki page he had done for Axis groupware about the options for accounting packages. Andrew Mitchell (ajmitch) said "i see that you're still focussing on the web-based - would you be using a php GNUe forms client, for example? as phpforms seems to be the main web forms client at the moment" . Dan said "we focus on the web based, where that means having a relatively thin, platform independant, client. preferably launchable via a web browser for reasons of authentication and UI integration. "Web based" may also mean that it's relatively tolerant of imperfections in the connection, i.e. run via internet. I think i have the same definition of "web based" as derek does, and it has no tie to html although it's highly preferable - but man if it makes the app seriously suffer, like for rapid data entry or needing a stateful connection, then that's something else - i mean it may require a thicker client than html" .

Andrew said his definition of web-based was "accessible via the internet, usually via HTTP (including layers like XML-RPC or SOAP) - the standard GNUe forms client can load forms via http, and talk to the appserver via xml-rpc - it seriously rocks, really :)" Dan agreed - "yeah that might imply the possibility for ssl - and it could be launched via a browser. People need to have a single environment to branch off of, that being the intranet, and being powered by what we call groupware. That should be an application launching zone if not literally the all-encompassing appserver itself" . Andrew said that the new GEAR (GNUe Archive) format could do something like this. Dan said that the browser "should be the encompassing GUI, that is - like the master menu - that's how to cater toward being the most things to the most people - having good defaults - making sure people know about system updates - having a groupware launchpad being the default home page" . Andrew said "like an html-based GNUe Navigator? GNUe Navigator is currently a basic forms & reports client, which has a menu/tree" Nicholas Lee (esands) though Dan's ideas "sounds like .NET. ;)" Dan said "minus the e-vil." Andrew said that "since DotGNU does still have ties with phpgw" , Dan Kuykendall (seek3r) "is coming to talk at the next meetathon - and i'm trying to get DotGNU stuff to be able to work nicely with GNUe stuff" Nicholas said "I think what you are saying is: build the infrastructure so that applications can tie together nicely." Andrew said "that's the aim of GNUe, DotGNU, and AxisGW - being 'glueware'" . Nicholas agreed - "common meme."

Andrew said "what would be interesting would be if GNUe's appserver could run a caching php interpreter" . Nicholas confirmed that mod_php reinterprets a page on each hit "Unless you use something commerical" . Andrew said "that's one thing that webware & GNUe's appserver won't do with python - they store the interpreted objects in memory" . Nicholas said "WHy not use a python web enviroment instead? Quixote?" Andrew suggested "because GNUe's appserver could do some of that stuff anyway?" . Nicholas noted that "Zend sells a php cache" . Andrew was "familiar with webware, haven't heard of quixote" . Nicholas said that "lwn run it" . Andrew was "surprised that there isn't a free php cache - i guess the interpreter works well enough for quite a few - or those that need the cache have enough incentive to pay for one :)" Dan said "there are free php caches - one comes with the latest mod_php - also see lingerd" . Andrew said "it sounded like lingerd wasn't a php cache, but an app to avoid keeping sockets open too long" . Dan confirmed this - "so for some dynamic sites you can use php cache and lingerd" together to maximise performance. Andrew agreed - "fast, scalable - so long as the php code itself is written nicely ;) - /me is perfectly able to write some really bad & non-scalable python code that totally negates the benefits of a fast appserver - really inefficient blocking use of SQL is a great way to kill your website ;)"


19. GNUe FAQ and website
15 Oct 2002 Archive Link: "[IRC] 16 Oct 2002"
Topics: Why GNUe?
People: Peter SullivanJason CaterDerek Neighbors

Peter Sullivan (psu) said he was "doing an emergency prune of the FAQ" - just fixing some broken links "now, then do a more comprehensive re-write on the content" at a later date. Jason felt that "we need to seriously look at the faq - and all our stuff really - imho it's WAY too package-centric - esp considering where we are today" . The "What is GNUE?" section of the FAQ talked exclusively about packages, not tools. Peter suggested replacing "that with the "three things" off what.php" . Jason said "sometimes I wonder if we really shouldn't consider ourselves as two separate projects - from an organizational standpoint" .

Jason also felt that talking about the packages in the current tense was misleading. Derek Neighbors (dneighbo) said "I am buried at work within week should be unburied and applications will start falling out" . "it should be in present tense with foot note about check status or something - only because if we write in future tense it has to be changed later and is bad marketing :)" Jason felt this was "true to a point" but "misleading marketing is not a good thing... it usually backfires and will destroy a "brand" fairly quickly" . Derek agreed - "i dont think we should market packages that dont exist in that fashion - i.e. giving a status or link to satus - just to cut down on our reworking. I dont want to say we have packages, but i want to make sure we arent talking in future tense that suggests some day we might consider it, but rather in a language that says we ARE making packages just they dont exist yet...." - "My big frustration today is that folks think GNUe has no deliverables" . Jason felt this was a consequence of the general focus in project literature on the (mostly still in planning) packages rather than the (mostly existing and usable) tools. Derek said this "falls in line with jcaters assement perhaps we need to market as two projects - the website is now stuctured that way" . Several people made positive comments about the new website. Derek said "perhaps we need a NOTE on the front page? that states tools are ready, packages are not? i.e. i agree 100% about it being confusing" .

Jason also asked about the third point on that "What is GNUe?" web page - about GNUe as a project "of support and resources for developers writing applications using the GNUe Tools (whether part of the 'official' GNUe Packages or not)." He said "I assume with it being a 3rd category apart from packages we are talking about 3rd party stuff? - or are we just talking about the "community" of help i.e., irc, mailing lists, etc" ?


20. Sales Tax in USA and Australasia
15 Oct 2002 Archive Link: "[IRC] 16 Oct 2002"
Topics: Financials (Accounting)
People: Nicholas LeeJason CaterCharles RouzerAndrew Mitchell

Nicholas Lee (esands) asked "Can someone explain how sales tax works in the US. From my observation sales tax is collection on sales. I wonder however how business balance off the outside of the equation. sales tax on goods purchase for the conduct of business. ie. for generating business income. Is sales tax collected on these purchases? Is it refund some how?" Jason Cater (jcater) said "if purchasing items for resale, you can present a Certificate of Resale (or something similarly titled) and the vendor won't charge you any taxes" . Charles Rouzer (Mr_You) said "sales tax is only per state. and sales tax is only for tangible goods, not services." Jason said this varied depending on location. Nicholas said "So you have to carry a card around with you. Sounds complex. Want about when a person is out and about? Say you have 100 people out and about. Do they each need to cert?" Jason said "usually you file this "Certificate of Resale" with the vendor so they have it on file - and this only applies to stuff you resale - if you are consuming within your business you still have to pay sales tax" . Charles clarified "you don't carry around a card, you just have to file the right paper work.. and provide your federal tax ID if a customer request it." .

Nicholas said "In NZ we are able to claim GST credits for items consumed in the production of business income" . Andrew Mitchell (ajmitch) said "so if you buy more than you sell, you get a GST refund :)" Nicholas said that the Australian system was even weirder. Andrew asked "isn't the tax rate dependant on the prduct/service there?" Nicholas said "no. just its exempt status - ie. finanical services (interest, bank fees, etc, but not insurance) dont have any GST" . Andrew said "and essential goods don't either, right? whatever they define essential to be :)" .


21. setPrefetch bug with database driver for Application Server fixed
15 Oct 2002 Archive Link: "[IRC] 16 Oct 2002"
Topics: Common, Application Server
People: Matt RiceDaniel BaumannAndrew Mitchell

Matt Rice (ratmice^) reported a problem "trying to use the appserver" - the was generating an error "'int' object has no attribute 'setPrefetch'" . Daniel Baumann (chillywilly) said "hmmm - I don't see why a geasList would not contain setPrefetch" . Andrew Mitchell (ajmitch) noticed "it says it's an int rather than a list - i've had stupid issues before with non-GNUe stuff where a list would appear as an int - and the int was the list length" . Daniel confirmed "fieldlist is a python list" but "it is not apparent to me what the issue is" . He suggested "why don't you add print self._list before the setPrefetch line - if it prints a number then that's b0rked" - "it should be a geasList from what I can tell" . Matt pasted several debugging messages he generated, and Daniel said "I know what it is now - in the createList method it returns None" . He applied a quick fix, saying "afict the "auth" check should succeed and we should get a real geasList object and not None - it's just a stub that does nothing but returns 1" .







Sharon And Joy

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