GNUe Traffic #39 For 27�Jul�2002

By Peter Sullivan

"we don't have many 7-11s up here" - "no 7/11 means no super squishies" - "we're not at all interested in your private life"

Table Of Contents


This Cousin covers the three main mailing lists for the GNU Enterprise project, gnue ( , gnue-dev ( and gnue-announce ( . It also covers the #gnuenterprise IRC channel. A great deal of development discussion for this project goes on in IRC. You can find #gnuenterprise on, or you can review the logs ( . For more information about the GNU Enterprise project, see their home page at ( .

1. Query toolbar icons bug with multiple Forms

17�Jul�2002�Archive Link: "[IRC] 18 Jul 2002"

Topics: Forms

People: Dmitry Sorokin,�James Thompson,�ra3vat

Dmitry Sorokin (ra3vat) reported a problem with multiple Forms open at once - "i did five forms instead of 5 pages in one tabbled - "connected" them with navigator - now if I open one, get all rows with F8,F9, then open another (first one still exist), query in second is not working" . James Thompson (jamest) said he had observed the same behaviour - "what I found is that multiple forms opened in navigator link the toolbar to the first form - the keyboard should do the right thing" . He confirmed this was a bug rather than a feature.

2. Technical Notes for GNUe

17�Jul�2002�-�19�Jul�2002�Archive Link: "[IRC] 18 Jul 2002"

People: Jason Cater,�Derek Neighbors,�Peter Sullivan,�Nick Rusnov

Jason Cater (jcater) reported "we have a basic technotes system in each of the modules - read */doc/technotes/00000.txt for more information or */doc/technotes/index.txt for a listing of technotes (which are few and far between at the moment)" . Derek Neighbors (dneighbo) wondered "should we make these reallly really basic xml?" - "so you can make a nice index" . Jason said he had "have a script that does that - it'd be trivial to do an html converter if need be" . He emphasised that these technotes were not ""Docs" in traditional sense" - just technical notes for developers.

Some days later ( , Peter Sullivan (psu) asked "do you think that your new tech notes could/should form the basis for the developer docs section on website" ? Jason felt "it could be a big part. My thought process on the tech notes: it takes time for us to open up tech references using XXXX editor, figure out where something we're working on internally should go (or even if it should), and then work it into the existing structure - but I can whip up a tech note on something i am doing in 5 min or less which can later be put in to the tech reference properly. /me sees technotes used a lot. Plus we could put really internal stuff in there that probably has no business in a tech reference" . He preferred not to use XML for these, as "simplicity is the key here - i.e., literally whip up a technote in 5-10 min while still fresh in your mind" .

Nick Rusnov (nickr) suggested "just use [] for section headings, ** for bold, __ for undeline, plain ascii all the way. :)" Derek said he would prefer either "a. its raw text with NO rules to formatting - b. if youhave formatting rules you do it with xml" Nick said he was "proposing a tool that simply eases typing xml - not a replacement format" . He would "write a demonstration program for you, because you're so annoying and ornery" - "I'm going to write it in perl because it'll take 5 minutes in perl because thats WHAT PERL DOES" . Jason said "I had intended on a) - I see NO need for formatting in technotes" .

3. Contact and Donor Management application for FSF

17�Jul�2002�Archive Link: "[IRC] 18 Jul 2002"

Topics: Why GNUe?, Customer Relations, DCL

People: Bradley Kuhn,�Jason Cater,�Derek Neighbors

Bradley Kuhn (bkuhn) said the Free Software Federation (FSF) was "getting close to really needing some hacker talent to build a functional contact and donor management system" . They hoped to "make something other non-profits could find useful." Jason Cater (jcater) noted thta Derek Neighbors had been "working on such a beast" . He himself had been "writing a Rental Property management app using our tools - and it is a piece of cake - the biggest problem I have is defining exactly what I want" . He would release this as a GNUe application - "if not official gnue, at least "endorsed" and free :)" . Bradley said "cool. It would be good to see some apps out there that use the tools." Jason agreed - "that's our biggest problem - Both jamest and I (we're the main forms, reports, and designer coders) use GNUe extensively at work - so we know what it can do - but until we get some real-world apps out it's hard to explain to people exactly what we are capable of" .

Bradley asked "BTW, your forms library can have multiple interface generators right?" Jason confirmed this - "GTK / Win32 is well supported - Curses / KDE / HTML started, but not completed" , adding "at this stage, we are really need-driven - so if there's a need, it gets coded - (we consider FSF a "need" :)" .

Bradley said that the FSF had already "done a data analysis. RMS is pushing us to do a simple hack so that we don't need to spend much staff time on it, which would be sad, because I know the GNUe stuff could get us something really nice. So my hope is to find volunteers who can help so we can spend minimal staff time, and get something nice for FSF and the world -- instead of something "barely adequate" for just FSF." Jason said "In all honesty, using GNUe would probably be even quicker than a quick hack - the trouble is getting ppl started on it" . Bradley agreed - "Any suggestions to get people started? What can FSF do to spur things on?" Jason said his view was "we should do one or two USABLE and USEFUL screens that you could start using right away - this would accomplish several things: 1. Show that GNUe is capable of what you need - 2. Get your users acquanted (and get feedback - positive or negative - from their viewpoint) 3. Give your staff (if they are going to help us do your project) example forms to work from" .

Bradley said one major issue would be importing and merging the data - "we have existing data in a really shitty format that is big. To make the system useful right off, it needs to have the imported data." This was "a big text file that is transaction, not "contact" oriented. So, if you bought things /donated from FSF twice in the last five years, we'd have you in twice, likely with slightly different entries." He might be able to get some sample data, "although I have to check that my script that removes sensative data works without fail." At the moment, the data was maintained in "A hacked together Emacs Lisp application." He expected that "The import process would have to be user directed." but "If we can get to the point where we have a good table layout, we could do that in house" - "asking the user: "Are these two transactions actually refering to the same person?"" .

Later, Derek (dnieghbo) confirmed "i have the spec just havent had time" - based on other feedback, he had "put a little on back burner until i could talk to brad and got busy and didnt" . He did not have a problem with working to deadlines, but was more concerned about starting from the data elements - "thats how a hacker does it - im a business analyst - i want to talk to the users" . Bradley said this was not a problem - "however, we don't have a ton of time for needs analysis" and a good deal of work had already been done internally on this. Derek said he had already had some discussions, "and some of the needs weren't full developed (i.e. the questioning needed to go further)" . Bradley said "I really invision doing something that can do some basic things, and then improving over time with more needs analysis, user wishlist s, etc." Derek agreed - "basic contact data - then build more" .

However, his contacts at FSF had been talking about much more complex data analysis - "i.e. pulling up a company and trying to view the employees of that company - by region - by name - and how important was it to manage 'companies' as well as 'people'" . Bradley agreed - "one of the biggest things Ravi needs is being able to tell the difference between "This company donates, and this is our contact there" vs. "this person donates, and they happen to work at a company" - right now, we have no clue to tell the difference" and they really needed to be able to do both. Derek said he had already mocked up some possible data layouts "working with postgres with the DCL contact data (iirc)" . He suggested "i am thinking maybe i just get the data spec completely done" and reviewed by the end users - "then perhaps you all could provide me with a copy of the existing data store - and i can work on pushing the data into it (unless you all would rather do that) - but im thinking just looking at the data and attempting to map it on even conceptional level will give me MUCH greater insight as to what you are tracking and will prompt me with LOTS of questoins for" end users about how they would expect to handle different business scenarios. Bradley agreed, but said "we do need a way for a user-directed data cleanup" and "we don't want to focus too much on what we are tracking now, becaues our whole current tracking doesn't work for what the organization needs to be doing. We have an opportunity to do it right from scratch, becaues there is really NOTHING there now. Just a big honking text file."

Derek also asked if the application could cover "copyright assignment's too" , to register details of copyright assignments by coders to FSF for GNU projects (including GNU Enterprise). He had "been using dcl for it and its MUCH nicer for me to bug poor youmans :) - but all the time i get asked does so and so have assignment - and i woudl love to fire up an ssh tunnel to a db - and open the fsf contact manager and tell them in like 10 seconds :)" . Bradley said "actually, our GPL Compliance guy has a system that will grok copryight.list into an SQL databse." He had some "security concerns with merging these two databases. We have anonymous donors, etc." Derek said that "RBAC = Role Based Access Control" should handle that, but Bradley was not fully convinced. However, he noted "we just need to get a donor managment system running first. ;)" Derek agreed - it was more a personal convenience issue that he did not always have access to his ssh keys to the FSF machine with the project's copyright.list file.

4. Response speed/time-out problem with Application Server

18�Jul�2002�-�23�Jul�2002 (4 posts) Archive Link: "Error 110 testing appserver"

Topics: Application Server, Common

People: Vitor Figueiro,�Jan Ischebeck,�Reinhard M�ller,�Arturas Kriukovas

Vitor Figueiro reported a problem "While testing appserver" . It was "Unable to load locale information falling back to default English" and then saying "Error: (110, 'Connection timed out')" . Jan Ischebeck said this "seems to have something todo with your database setting, you should check if connection.conf is holding the correct values. You need a [gnue] database def. in there. The error message you got, should be changing to a better one, because I've fixed the OnErr function in cvs." He had tried to reproduce the error on his machine, but could not. He suggested "this is a RPC problem so you possibly want to try the pw-xmlrpc adapter instead. You can activate it with gacvs -Z --rpc-type pw_xmlrpc." . Vitor reported "that a client connection is always successfull at the second attempt" which suggested that it was genuine response speed time out. "The same happens when I run appservertest.gfd from a Windows client connected to the same server. It only works when I call the form for the 2nd time without shutting down the server" .

On IRC ( , Reinhard M�ller (reinhard) asked Arturas Kriukovas (Arturas) to have a look, "as it seems to have something to do with encoding" . Jan Ischebeck (siesel) said that "Although the error on the mailing list has nothing to do with encoding (its seems to be a database problem) there is an other error in combination with encodings. Because appserver isn't using an config file there is no way to get it working with a "encoding = gConfig('encoding')" line. It should be changed back to "encoding = connectData['encoding']"." Arturas said "as far as i saw, connectData['encoding'] raised exception because it was empty or not defined and database encoding was not set" . He would "add aditional checking if connectData['encoding'] is defined and if not will read it's value from config file - is this ok?" Jan said "there seems to be a check, if its not defined (except KeyError) and if its wrong or empty (except self._databaseError), possibly one of the error handlers has problems :)" He updated CVS with a quick fix the problem, "but if you could look at it later and possibly improve it, that would be great."

5. Event handling for scroll bar widget

18�Jul�2002�-�22�Jul�2002�Archive Link: "[IRC] 19 Jul 2002"

Topics: Forms

People: Marcos Dione,�Jason Cater

Further to Issue�#38, Section�#6� (11�Jul�2002:�Scrollbars and their events) , Marcos Dione (StyXman) queried why he had to "declare a default behaviour" in GFInstance, "but then I override it in gfsb" . He wondered "if I do self._eventHandler (event) in the wx's event handler, am I not skipping the whole event mechanism?" Jason Cater (jcater) "thinks GFInstance provides the handler - not the default handler" . Marcos said that his wx scrollbar widget was "so specific that I'm rather reluctant to put it in gfinstance..." It would "scroll the 'current;' datasource - where current is the datasource associated to the block in which the sb is declared." Jason thought this sounded fine. Marcos said that, ideally, "I would put a dummy behaviour in gfinstance and the real behaviour in GFsb - because I prefer to keep the ui/gf relation tight - but, it's your design."

Some days later ( , Marcos said he still did not feel comfortable putting the behaviour for a scrollbar "in the gfinstance 'multpiplexor'..." rather than the GFScrollBar module. Jason explained "you need a single controller monitoring behavior - it's next to impossible to keep track of the "current" scrollbar and catch it's GFEvents exclusively - i.e., if you have all GFScrollBars listen in on the events then you have to distinguish which one should actually respond" . Marcos said he "thought there was a link between the uiobj and the gfobl, and that way the behaviour could go directly in the gfobj - and I have some problems cause I think I'll get some circular event launching. The behaviout I want to give to the sb is to scroll the current block datasource. So, when the 'cursor' of the datasource changes, the sb should change, and vice versa..." Jason agreed - "that's why I think you can't do it within the GFScrollbar code - or you at least have to multiplex the request through GFInstance. The GFDisplayHandler uses the multiplexing route. So, there are two things you can do: 1) Have GFInstance handle it all (easiest) - 2) Have GFInstance listen for the requestSCROLLBAR event and then determines which scrollbar/datasource is the current one, and directly call a method of this scrollbar which then handles the logic." Either way, "you really can't have GFScrollbar listening for the events - as all the Scrollbars in the form would get the event" . Most Forms widgets used the first method "but the GFDisplayHandler (keystrokes, et al) use #2 - the only reason GFDisplayHandler is different is that each entry widget can have a different *type* of displayhandler" .

Marcos noted that "in UIbutton's buttonHAndler" this was done by "a call to _eventHandler instead of 'raising' a event." Jason was not conviced that UIbutton was a good model - it worked that way "only because UIbutton doesn't have its own dispatchEvent" , which was the more standard way of handling this - "search for event.eventHandler = self.dispatchEvent" . Marcos said things were becoming "_a little_ clear now..." .

Marcos asked "how do I 'hook' a new listener to certain event? I need to know when the datasource does something with the visible records... with registerEventListeners?" Jason agreed - "you will need to hook into GFBlock (add some code there)" . Marcos confirmed "like, doing a special event just for a ocassional scrollbar?" .

Later, he uncovered another problem - "I added a method on gfblock that registers scrollbars.\ a scroll bar created registers itself as a scrollbar for that block. then, the block, when updates, updates the scrollbars registered. *but* now I'm registering" using the User Interface ScrollBar module rather than the generic GNUe Forms ScrollBar module.

6. xml2sql for Firebird/Interbase

18�Jul�2002�Archive Link: "[IRC] 19 Jul 2002"

Topics: Common, Designer

People: Bajusz Tam�s,�Jason Cater

Following on from Issue�#38, Section�#11� (12�Jul�2002:�Including data in GNUe Application Server schema definitions) , Bajusz Tam�s (btami) asked for "some help on xml2sql - i try to make a firebird.xsl" but was having problems with the tags for Primary Keys. Jason Cater (jcater) said "the "correct" way will be <pkfield name="username"/> - the old-style is from the scripts used in DCL - but they have a few GObject no-no's in them so the one in GNUe cvs will have to be the new style" . Bajusz asked for a sample file in the new format, "and then i can make firebird.xsl" .

7. GNUe Designer plug-in support

18�Jul�2002�-�23�Jul�2002�Archive Link: "[IRC] 19 Jul 2002"

Topics: Designer

People: Jason Cater,�Peter Sullivan,�Derek Neighbors,�Andrew Mitchell,�Bajusz Tam�s,�Jan Ischebeck

Jason Cater (jcater) announced "I have completed my masterpiece - Designer will never be the same again. The wizard/template/scripting support in Designer has been taken one step further - all "Creation Actions" in Designer are now implemented (or once all are converted) as Scripts[wizards] - so people can extend the functionality of Designer without knowing Designer internals by creating Plug-Ins. All basic actions in Designer will be done via plug-ins too, so people can replace the default functionality with their own support" . He felt this was "a huge step in the life of designer" . Peter Sullivan (psu) asked "does this also pave the way for Designer to move beyond being "just" a Forms Designer to the sunlit uplands of Reports Designer, App Server Designer, etc?" Jason said "we've already started that - that's part of this cvs breakage since last release. We have the starts of a Navigator designer - we do have a Schema designer - HOWEVER - right now, only the Wizards work (i.e., you can use Designer to extract table definitions from, say, Postgres and save them in the GNUe Schema format)" . He had re-engineered Designer so that all the code that was specific to designing forms was now separated out into a specific module.

Three days later ( , Jason Cater (jcater) predicted "designer's about to kick some serious arse - by the end of the day, "insert a dropdown entry" (using my nifty new plugin architecture) will autocreate any needed datasources" . Derek Neighbors (dneighbo) suggested "i think the marketing materials can say 'Designer: The Ultimate Arse Kicker' and it wont be a lie :)" Jason worked some more on the non-stable CVS code base, managing to bring down X at least once, but felt it was coming along nicely. He accidently pasted some code in the main channel, but explained "that is an example of a plugin - a completely working plugin - that creates a basic entry" . Andrew Mitchell (ajmitch) asked "so you're gutting & rewriting large chunks of code?" Jason said "not really - designer hasn't really done much in the way of "creating things" i.e., it excels at moving crap around but the creation stuff is lacking" until this latest re-write.

He added "/me isn't all that gung-ho about plug-ins in general but I'm trying to make it easier for others to contribute - iow, /me wants to make it so you can add features to designer without fully understanding what goes on behind the scenes" . Derek was not sure that was a good idea - "dont know what you are doing - thats ok we will let you break it anyways" - especially with him around. Jason said "my main goal is to NOT be the only one contributing to Designer :) - /me has even scared jamest out of designer so I'm all alone in there and it's a lonely place to be" . Derek agreed - "all kidding a side i think its an excellent move - reminds me of delphi :) - i.e. we will give you the shell, beat the hell out of it at will" . He "really wants to look at cvs integration tools" so that "can check/in/out files and such from within designer - not full cvs client or anything - but some stuff" .

The next day ( , Bajusz Tam�s (btami) reported "i sended a SimpleReport wizard" and asked Jason to have a look at it if possible. Later, Jason confirmed "btami sent me the first Report wizard !!!! - /me hasn't played with it yet" .

The next day ( , Jan Ischebeck (siesel) asked "did you have a look at the schema creation wizard I've added?" Jason said "yeah - just committed a patch to it so it will write out to a file - pretty cool, though" . He added "of course, that's why I like a plug-in architecture - as I would have never thougth about doing something like that - but it's a great addition" . Jan asked "how can I create new instances out of a wizard?" . Jason thought he would "probably need to add a convenience method to do that - as it is easy to do if you can get at the instance but getting that far back would be ugly (something I want to hide from plug-in writers)" . Jan suggested "adding a link to the designer instance to start(...) ? or, (this could be easier) to create a wizard._MainInstance automagicaly."

8. Possible methods to add to GNUe Application Server

21�Jul�2002�Archive Link: "[IRC] 22 Jul 2002"

Topics: Application Server

People: Ariel Cal�,�Jan Ischebeck

Ariel Cal� (ariel_) said "i think you sould add some methods to geasList - canonical things on lists, like getLenght isEmpty, isFirst(geasItem) isLast(geasItem) previousItem - the last if _resultset allows to. I think they should be simple calls to the cooresponding methods in ResultSet. By the way what is the difference between ResultSet and RecordSet?" Jan Ischebeck (siesel) explained "Resultset = result of an select operation - RecordSet = one row." . Ariel said "I don't know if such methods are specified someway in ODMG, if so you can follow their spec" . Jan said "I will add these methods (if possible) - ODMG use a different approach, because you get a collection, which can be a Set, Bag, List .... (like in java) - in the end I like to use something similar like ODMG, java, something that is supporting locking and which is thread/multi client safe. But I still don't know the best way to do that. Another important point is that it has to be easy to implement, and easy to understand." Ariel asked whether there would be "some kind of caching mechanism (for long long long lists) or it is yet implemented in resultset?" . Jan said "there is kind of caching in result set, but not in the dbdriver..."

9. Overview of GNUe Tools on Windows 2000

21�Jul�2002�Archive Link: "[IRC] 22 Jul 2002"

Topics: Forms, Designer

People: Jan Ischebeck,�Jason Cater,�Reinhard M�ller,�Derek Neighbors

It was asked how to install the GNU Enterprise tools on Windows 2000. Jan Ischebeck (siesel) pointed to ( , saying "for eval purposes, ignore "snapshots" and "prereleases"" . He believed that "the windows binaries already contain everything needed for running the gnu enterprise tools :)" , including setting up menu entries and desktop icons. "with designer, you create forms and code. "forms", the program itself, interprets these forms, displays them and handles the database resp. application server connection" . The .gfd (GNUe Forms Definition) files produced by Designer were "xml based markup - gnue makes heavy use of xml: markup for forms definition, reports definition etc." To connect to a database, "you have a connections.conf file where you have to specify the host, db name and database driver" - you could have multiple connections. To see how to design simple forms, "a good starting point is the zipcode example. my first running gnu enterprise app was done with that :)" . Derek Neighbors (dneighbo) confirmed there was a sample entry for an Oracle database in the default connections.conf file. Jason Cater (jcater) pointed out that "unfortunately, the precompiled win32 exe's won't support oracle - as to create the exe's, we'd have to include the Oracle run-times and of course, that is a big licensing no-no :(" . Jan said alternatively "you can build it from source. i don't know how hard it is to make the oracle driver work." Reinhard M�ller (reinhard) confirmed that Forms could support grid-like layouts - "grid in forms is done by giving a counter to a widget - that means that you have an entry and set the counter to 10 then you have the entry 10 times below each other. I would believe that designer supports this but i'm not sure" .

10. Current status of acclite/NOLA

21�Jul�2002�Archive Link: "[IRC] 22 Jul 2002"

Topics: Financials (Accounting)

People: Daniel Baumann,�Jason Cater,�Derek Neighbors

Daniel Baumann (chillywilly) asked about progress on acclite/NOLA, as discussed in Issue�#36, Section�#6� (27�Jun�2002:�NOLA and acclite - free software financials packages) - "just asking because a guy in my LUG was looking for something to use" . Jason Cater (jcater) said "I think MicahY is leading the way in NOLA conversion" . Derek Neighbors (dneighbo) announced "we have at least 2 companies committed to using GNUe in a manufacturing setting - specifically BOM, Invoicing, Inventory" - "so the answer should be soon. I was hoping to have some demo stuff ready by Aug 12th" to demonstrate at LinuxWorldExpo, but "real life may prevent that - plus i owe the FSF some contact stuff" .

11. Using schema creation tools to set up GNUe Applications

22�Jul�2002�Archive Link: "[IRC] 23 Jul 2002"

Topics: Designer, Common

People: Jan Ischebeck,�Jason Cater,�Christian Selig,�Ariel Cal�

Jan Ischebeck (siesel) reported that Ariel Cal� (ariel_) had "proposed to add an "initialdrop" attribute to <table> (boolean) in the GSD file format. It would create a DROP TABLE statement before the CREATE TABLE command." He noted "because creating tables will be handled by gnue-common (in the future) this option won"t be needed (in the future) because there could be a dialog opening (in designer) which ask the user if he want to keep his old tables with the old data or not." He could "imagine a future senario like that: using designer to create a schema definition, creating tables with this schema definition, by just pressing "Create tables" button. i.e. designer uses a new function in common which create tables, indexes, etc., if a table already exist a warning message is shown and the user can choose to between leaving this table alone, or to drop it and recreate it. In this case, there is no need for that "initialdrop" attribut. right?" Jason Cater (jcater) said "well that's kind of the direction I was wanting - however I want the common support to be smart enough to be able to do "alter tables" or give the user the option of restarting from scratch i.e., that will be vital for our packaging" . Jan agreed - "we need an package format and an installer soon. The installer would use gnue/common to create/modify the tables defined in a GSD file. btw. it would be cool to have a package tool in designer, where you can just choose some GFD, GND, GSD and build a package." Jason said he was "working on that - (notice the new Project menu in Designer :)" He did not have a name for the project file type yet - he had "only implemented the Wizard stuff for the schema designer - haven't started on the graphical part" . Christian Selig (sledge_) asked whether this would be "ms-access like visual creation of tables with all the connected id fields?" Jason said "something like that" - or "something like pgaccess - only not pg-specific :0"

12. Background colours and images for Forms

22�Jul�2002�Archive Link: "[IRC] 23 Jul 2002"

Topics: Forms

People: Jan Ischebeck,�Andrew Mitchell,�Nick Rusnov,�Jason Cater,�Derek Neighbors,�Reinhard M�ller

Jan Ischebeck (siesel) said he wanted "to add my VERY important "change background color" patch ;)" Andrew Mitchell (ajmitch) felt "oh that'd be so hot" , adding "/me wants that!!" , as "gray is so boring" . Nick Rusnov (nickr) said it needed "to add gradient support" . Andrew felt it was "lots easier to support single colours - /me looks up the wxpython docs" . Jason Cater (jcater) said "yes, gray is boring - that's why I prefer grey" . Nick accused Jason of being "entirely too boring - you should be full of life like siesel" . Andrew noted "ooh, there's a wxWindow.SetBackgroundColour method - just let 'colour' (or color if you prefer) to be an optional attribute of the form" . Nick felt "if you wa;nt other colours shouldhn't you use a local theme for your widget set like gtk or winders or whatever - shounldn't it pick up whatever colours the native widgets are using?" Andrew felt "these UI enhancements win over the stupid users & management ;)" Nick said he might need a white background as "I need forms to look just like paper forms" . Several people proposed other colour schemes of various levels of garishness. Derek Neighbors (dneighbo) said "actually at one time we discussed being able to take a .eps file or such - and having it be the 'background' for a form" . Jason commented "yeah, but thank god y'all sobered up" .

Later, Reinhard M�ller (reinhard) said "i believe that backgruond color in forms _could_ be useful but in another context - e.g. i have clients that have set up a live database and a testing database and they have requested that if they log into the testing database then the background should turn into red - but of course i don't see it as a priority" .

13. Application Server package in Debian 3.0 (woody) depreciated

22�Jul�2002�Archive Link: "[IRC] 23 Jul 2002"

Topics: Application Server

People: Reinhard M�ller

Reinhard M�ller (reinhard) asked "i guess most of you noticed that woody has become stable" - but "did somebody also notice that woody still contains geas-0.0.6?" In the midst of various smutty jokes by other people about frozen woodys, he noted "i wrote a mail to the one who packaged it some _months_ ago requesting to remove it again" as that version of GNUe Application Server (GEAS) was depreciated and no longer being developed, as per Issue�#19, Section�#1� (28�Feb�2002:�GNUe Application Server (GEAS) version 2 Discussion) .

14. GNU Enterprise overview

23�Jul�2002�Archive Link: "[IRC] 24 Jul 2002"

Topics: Human Resources, DCL, Forms, Application Server, Common

People: Carl Kigundu,�Peter Sullivan,�Derek Neighbors

Carl Kigundu (clock) had a "question about modules (eg acc or HRM), do I have to create the tables and business logic myself?" Peter Sullivan (psu) replied "we don't really have the modules/packages yet - there are some proposals on the website - but no real work done on implementation yet" . Carl deduced "so without the modules and packages, this means ... 1. build tables in database 2. get designer and design forms which interlock with database 3. use forms?" Derek Neighbors (dneighbo) said "sounds like you about have it down - when will that hrm package be ready :)" ? He asked "so what are you looking for in HRM - i think some hrm would be VERY easy to whip up - in fact some of the contact stuff from DCL might even be some of a start" .

Peter explained that " Double Chocco Latte ( " was "a combo bug-tracking/project mgt/general contacts apps - currently written in php rather than the GNUe tools - but we have merged and are now working together - even to the extent of derek doing the last offical release of DCL ;-)" , as referred to in Issue�#37, Section�#5� (6�Jul�2002:�Security release of DCL) . "At the moment, it is a classic LAMP (linux, apache. mysql, php) app - except it actually has a good UI. But derek already has some DCL forms for various admin functions in two tier (i.e. form talks directly to d/b)" . Derek said that the "progression will be - make it use forms" as an alternative to the "existing php (web) interface" - "then long term as appserver gets stable then both the php and forms versions could use the appserver - eventually the php version would be replaced by form www driver" . However, "im taking babysteps (as thats all time has been allowing)" .

He explained that Application Server was different from, but depended on, GNUe Common - "gnue-common is the sink where we put things that get reused :) so the db-abstraction, rpc-abstraction and trigger system is all in gnue-common" for use both by the Application server and "by reports/forms etc" . Their debian packages were, as of time of writing, "pretty hosed" - "DCL debs work well though :)" Later, he explained "all the developers use cvs versions so our 'motivation' to have debs is low - and we havent been able to sucker someone else into doing them" . Installing from source was not too bad - "if you get cvs or tarball do from the root of the tarball idr and follow instructions and you are golden i.e. its an interactive setup deal - does appserver and such too" .

Earlier, he confirmed that GNUe was python-based - "appserver was originally done in C and called GEAS (short for GNU Enterprise Application Sever) - we have redone in python and made use gnue-common and now call it appserver to try to prevent confusion :)" You could use either python 2.1 or 2.2.

15. Using Forms as an alternative front-end for gnumed

23�Jul�2002�Archive Link: "[IRC] 24 Jul 2002"

Topics: Forms

People: Christian Selig,�Jason Cater

Christian Selig (sledge_) asked "does anyone of you know gnumed?" He said "they seem to rely on clever db structures, so i thought whether it would be possible (in the future) to use forms as an alternative client (though their current UI is already cute and user-friendly)" . Jason Cater (jcater) said "we've thought about it - and I think derek might have approached them about it - that's all I know though" . Christian said "there's no urgency, i'm just longing for a free practice management without all this "open source" bubble - i have potential customers, and i don't want to install some proprietary crap that i can't fix; combining gnumed and gnue in the long term is quite obvious, but i'll just wait and see" .

16. Problems with php globals off in DCL

23�Jul�2002�Archive Link: "[IRC] 24 Jul 2002"

Topics: DCL

People: Derek Neighbors

Problems were reported trying to set up DCL on FreeBSD with php 4.1.2. Derek Neighbors (dneighbo) explained "php changed its settings - it turns globals OFF by default now - you need to change you php.ini file to set them to on - and that should solve your problem" . Also, with Internet Explorer, you had to "go to your dcl installation with a trailing /. If you ever visit dcl without the trailing slash, you need to close that browser window" and start again.

Looking at the relevant line of code, Derek concluded it was a problem with the DCL domain on FreeBSD - "i really need to patch this - windows has same problems" . He asked "can you paste here you equivalent Database connection info" ? It appeared that "for some reason dbType is coming out as blank" so it was trying to open file '/GNUe/.html' instead of '/GNUe/mysql.html'. He suggested a temporary patch to manually include mysql.php, but this generated another error. Derek "is thinking something is up with globals still" . Dropping back to an older version of php was suggested as a possible solution, but Derek said "no - i see the problem" . The database configuration needed to be literally 'name' => 'default', rather than replacing 'default' with the real hostname. He confirmed it was erroring "how i would expect with globals turned off" - with register globals turned on, "i see it just fine" .

17. GNUe and DCL in eWeek

23�Jul�2002�Archive Link: "[IRC] 24 Jul 2002"

Topics: Why GNUe?, DCL

People: Derek Neighbors

Derek Neighbors (dneighbo) asked "um did anyone else know we were in eWeek (,3959,367215,00.asp) this month?" as part of an overview of several open source and free software ERP/CRM applications. "like a paragraph or two on us with some screen shots?"

Sharon And Joy

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